Endurance.Net Ridecamp Archives

I've chimed in on this subject before and will throw my two cents in again. A good trainer, track, pleasure, show, endurance, will train their horses with good foundation skills that will make them good all around horses. The problem is the number of good trainers in the world seems to be hard to come by. I would not tolerate biting from any horse at people at any time, this is aggressive behavior and should be remedied immediately.

It always puzzles me when someone buys a horse that has been trained to race and is surprised that this horse likes to run. Horses on the track are bred and handled to be HOT! Anyone buying one off the track should know that they are getting a horse that is for an experienced rider. So there is my track two cents.

 

Must reiterate, biting at people is not good and is more prone to happen with studs or geldings that are cut late. I agree with D'Arcy, I wouldn't maintain a horse that was that aggressive if I couldn't break the habit. I have little kids and I won't chance them walking up to a stall only to get bitten for their trouble. I kind of like John Lyon's philosophy about a biting horse which goes something like, if a horse bites me I have three seconds to make that horse believe that I will kill it, with exception of their head. They would be reprimanded in a herd and need to know that I'm the LEAD horse around here.

 

Sherri

 

On 2/1/08, Stacy Sadar <stacy_sadar@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I'd bite too if you left me in the stall my whole life except to "work me" for 30 minutes then put me right back in the box!

 

The only time I got bit, it was one of those freak show horses that mommy bought the 13 yr old girl so she could win.  The girl took the bars out of her horse's stall so he could stick his head out between the time I was there the day before and when I got there this day.  I'm walking in my stall and he lunges through the opening and grabs my bicep.  Thank goodness it was winter and I had a million layers on otherwise I'd be missing my entire bicep.  He still tore the muscle and the bruise was there for months.  The mother...she tells the whole barn, "well, she must have done something to him to make him bite her."  Find out later, this horse had bit a few others too!  Me....I was about ready to grab one of those bars and beat the crap out of the horse AND the mother!

 

Stacy 

Mike Sherrell <mike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

This is interesting. Show and race horses bite more because either 1) it is a bred-in trait that goes along with good show and race performance or at least doesn't need to be bred out, and/or 2) it has to do with the way they are trained.

 

In case 1, we will gradually get a divergence of breeds within breeds -- there will be one sub-breed of, for example, Thoroughbreds: "biting show/race Thoroughbreds" and one sub-breed of "nice everyday rideable Thoroughbreds", and because biting winners are bred to biting winners and biting stable horses are culled, the two sub-breeds will become more separate.

 

In case 2, what seems to be being implied is that the traits of character and temperament that enhance competetiveness in the horse also enhance its aggressiveness towards humans. Trainers seeking prizes are aware of this and with their training are purposefully reinforcing the traits of aggressiveness and violence towards humans to maximize the horse's competitiveness, and themselves being tough and skilled, figure they can keep out of the way.

 

Or both.

 

God help the novices that buy losers off the racetrack and the little girls who get their mommies to buy them horses to make them win at the show.

Regards,

Mike Sherrell
Grizzly Analytical
707 887 2919; fax 707 887 9834
www.grizzlyanalytical.com

-----Original Message-----
From: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of D'Arcy Demianoff-Thompson
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 10:26 AM
To: k s swigart
Cc: Ridecamp
Subject: Re: [RC] [RC] horses at the track

k s swigart wrote:

<p.s.  For the same reason, you are also more likely to find a biting
horse in a show barn than in an open to the public boarding facility.
Show barn horses are more often handled by professionals, and the
unacceptable behaviour is more likely to be tolerated in a successful
show horse than in a family pleasure horse>.

 

Anyone that remembers Denny Hansen's, Father, Don Hansen, Sr., yes the same Don Hansen Training Bit person, will remember this to be true.  Don, Sr., specifically culled his training horses, for the nastiest dispostion to perform in most English Classes.  Why?  Because they made the BEST competitors.  Yes, many of them went onto the breeding shed. 

 

I had a horse that became intolerable to handle.  Nor did he like being around any other human being except myself and sometimes the person that cleaned his stall.  And on occassion he wanted to take a chunk out of me.  He was the BEST I have ever bred in terms of conformation, size, gait, movement, balance, grace and beauty.  Unfortuantely, he was put down at the age of three because I could not run the risk of him biting some unspecting passer by on the ranch.  It was a very hard decision.  And I consulted several top level trainers including,Denny.  Denny knew he  could have taken this colt all the way to the top without a moment's hesitation.  As he said, "these were my Father's specialty, I could do the same thing with this guy.  Unfortunately, outside of you or me, no one would be able to handle him D'Arcy.  You would run the risk of him possibly killing someone and it wouldn't be fair to him."  Denny confirmed my suspicions and with a lot of difficulty finally convenienced my business partner it was the right decision to euthanize this colt.  Then isn't that what responsible breeding is all about? 

 

I reviewed the breeding records, pedigrees, and on and on to see where this disposition came from, what lines to eliminate, etc.  I decided to never breed the dam and sold her to someone that would NEVER breed her again!  She is a great pasture ornament.  :)   Unfortunate because she was the best trail horse I have ever raised and trained.  The decision on the sire is still in the evaluating process.  He has not been bred since.  He will be outcrossed to a spanish or polish line.  He is top heavy in Blue List Eygtian!  Need I say more? 

 

The idea of comparing race track horses, to boarding facility horses, to show barn horses, to pasture horses is, as Kat has stated, 'apples to oranges' - the manner in which these horses are raised, handled, trained, and marketed are completely DIFFERENT.  I have never seen anyone on the back side of the race that didn't have a 'Horse Racing License' or was accompanied by someone that did have one.  I have seen more mishaps and accidents happen at Class A Arabian Horse Shows than I have seen at the track or on the ranch level.   Boarding facility accidents are few and far between.  Most owner's, trainers, and/or managers are fairly consciencous of liability issues.  Therefore, you won't find too many that will openly accept or maintain a horse that has a bad disposition. 

 

Just my two cents!

 

D'Arcy