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Re: [RC] [RC] [RC] Confirmation- reply to Tuni - Laney Humphrey

Good points, Kathy!
Laney

Kathy Mayeda wrote:
I'm not denying that their could be a genetic component to it, but I think that if my horses were raised with better management they may not have had uneven feet. The sires are mentioned are through both the dam and sire sides. I think that if I mentioned dam's names it would be unrecognizable because the dam just does not have too many progeny unless they throw a sire of significance like Bey Shah or Skrownek - they just throw more get. I think that Bey Shah may have been bred to mares that perpetuate the height thing so you're doubling the genetic propensity for height with the ensuing issues.
I'm starting to really dislike modern halter breeding practices. I used to spend hours arguing with Heidi about halter horse breeding vs. preservation breeding. I like the way my horses are bred because they are kind of a Heinz 57 halter breeding. I recently saw a video of an domestic Egyptian bred stallion, and was watching for a side shot so I could see hip and shoulder conformation. Saw only the tea cup muzzle and head - which too me is a little cartoonish because it was soooo extreme.
I am Japanese American. 100% Japanese by blood - recorded for centuries in Japan - no genetic messing around here. I grew up in America. I go to Japan - and those people are TINY! They are from the same genetic pool as I am, but their lifestyle and eating habits have themselves at considerable less weight and bone as my siblings and I. They are saying that the Japanese population in general is growing due to more milk products in their diet. That's not genetics. That's equivalent to feeding a horse alfalfa. Osteoporosis is not a common disease among the Japanese in Japan, but it's quite prevalent in the Japanese American popluation here as is Type 2 diabetes.
I bet if we take those mustangs with great feet, breed them, raise the young with the halter breeder standards of horsekeeping you will start to see some bad mojo happening with them too within a generation or too. I have a friend that has a 15'2H Kiger Mustang domestically bred, who would probably should have been less than 15H raised in the wild. I bet if we have our Arabs turned loose for natural selection, you will start to see a lot shorter horses just because of diet, excercise available and natural selection process. Then you'll start seeing great feet too.
K.

On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 5:00 PM, Lauren Horn <4horn4@xxxxxxx <mailto:4horn4@xxxxxxx>> wrote:

    I would bet that if there was a study done genetics would win hands
    down. Now...that's just my experience and because it has been a
    "pet-peeve" of mine for a decade, I have been quite observant of
    this. Kathy you mention only the sires of your three horses. They
    also had dams that contributed 50% of the genes. Just because a
    horse displays the syndrome doesn't mean he or she will produce
    it.....but in my observation most do pass it on in some degree.

Now I haven't observed many wild mustangs but all the ones that I
have seen that are domesticated have great feet. Again, I feel it is
bad breeding (and many National Champions at shows have this
syndrome) and in halter classes I blame the judges
for choosing horses with uneven feet.

Lauren


On Jul 11, 2008, at 4:39 PM, Kathy Mayeda wrote:

It's genetics coupled with bad management practices. Bey Shah has
been accused of throwing a lot of club footed horses, but my
double Bey Shah horse is nearly perfectly even. I think that Bey
Shah was so prolific genetics among halter people who are breeding
for TALL.
My two other horses are Russian/Crabbet/Polish - lots of
Skrowneck. They both have the same sire that has totally even feet. The sire was also shown quite regularly at an early age and had
adequate hoofcare and was kept in a stall and fed from a feeder. My two horses were thrown out into the broodmare pasture to grow
up and they had access to grazing 24/7. They both have uneven
feet - BUT IT'S THE OPPOSITE SIDES! Also fed 100% alfalfa cubes
so that they can "reach their genetic potential." Very little
corrective hoofcare My feeling is that their genetic ideal was to not be fed that rich
of a diet, maybe be a couple of inches shorter, and maybe not be
eating in that "split stance" that Blake Edwards referred to. It's the "long legs, short neck" syndrome that he says causes the
split stance. My Bey Shah horse - who has the genetics to be way
tall - grew up in pretty much identical circumstances and is
totally even.
When I was having my mare x-rayed for lameness and talked to my
vet about it. He does not think it's genetic at all. K.

    On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 3:57 PM, Lauren Horn <4horn4@xxxxxxx
    <mailto:4horn4@xxxxxxx>> wrote:

        The high heel/low heel syndrome is genetic! Uneven feet are
        bad feet and this syndrome runs rampant in arabians. I don't
        believe it is acquired although the split leg eating stance
        may contribute to the severity. The problem with this syndrome
        is it runs in degrees from very mild to severe. It is a defect
        and in many cases horses become unsound (mostly in the low
        heel foot) although many horses can be managed with good
        trimming/shoeing and can have successful careers. There are
        also saddle fit issues with this syndrome. I firmly believe
        that arabian stallions have no business being a stallion if
        they have this syndrome. There are too many other stallions
        that are good and have even feet.

Lauren, who stands tall on my soapbox about this pet peeve of mine

        Try finding arabian with even front feet.....very hard. We
        need to get back to the basics and start from the feet up.



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Replies
[RC] [RC] Confirmation- reply to Tuni, Lauren Horn
Re: [RC] [RC] [RC] Confirmation- reply to Tuni, Kathy Mayeda
Re: [RC] [RC] [RC] Confirmation- reply to Tuni, Kathy Mayeda