Endurance.Net Ridecamp Archives

Actually Beth,

While it might make you feel better to vent on Ridecamp. I expect if 
there were a protest - the jerks would use this venting to show a 
"persistent bias and a vendetta."  You are not going to solve the 
problem here - you need to document the incidents and see if it will 
withstand a protest.

My guess is you might have given the jerks ammunition for their protest 
if denied entry.

BTW I'm not the bad guy here.

Truman

Beth Walker wrote:
> Well, all due respect Truman, I think there is a qualitative 
> difference between asking a question or requesting a second opinion, 
> and screaming, yelling and "being a jerk".   I imagine most ride 
> managers and vets can tell the difference.
>
> Certainly everyone loses their temper now and then.  However, we are 
> talking about people who have an established pattern for this kind of 
> behavior.  The RMs and vets should not have to put up with it.  As for 
> setting a bad precedent - that is what the protest process is for.
>
> On May 29, 2007, at 1:29 PM, Truman Prevatt wrote:
>
> > Beth Walker wrote:
> > > I don't think you have to put up with them, but you may have to do 
> > > some prep work. Get the incidents documented and take it to the AERC 
> > > board. Use rule 4.1.3 (from Jonni) to refuse them entry to your ride.
> > >
> > > /4.1.3 Abusive harassment of ride personnel, other riders or crews,/
> > > /such as arguing with the veterinarians, breaking the line at vet/
> > > /gates, or deliberately blocking other riders on the trail./
> > >
> > > While Truman has a point, I think that "abusive harassment" includes 
> > > more than physical force or threats. The rule itself includes 
> > > "arguing with the veterinarians". I think screaming and yelling at 
> > > ride management also qualifies. Cars honking behind horses sounds 
> > > out of bounds to me. If veterinarians, volunteers or other riders 
> > > are complaining about these two, have them put their complaint in 
> > > writing to help you document the problem.
> > Honking behind horses - IMO does cross the line. Excessive arguing 
> > with vets does cross the line. However, if the wrong precedent is set 
> > - even the asking of a question or requesting a second opinion might 
> > go as considered arguing in the future. I'm not sure yelling at ride 
> > management is more of just being a jerk unless there is more to it.
> >
> > However, the riders in question can sure file a protest and for the 
> > protest not to stand up - the ride managers will have to have valid 
> > documentation with witnesses to all the incidents and the incidents 
> > will have to show a pattern of abusive behavior that rises the level 
> > as set forth in rule 4.1.3 and such as "blocking other riders on the 
> > trail" sets a pretty high level.
> >
> > Truman
> >
> > > It would be a shame to have rides shut down which bring enjoyment to 
> > > dozens of people because of a couple of bad apples.
> >
> >
> > --
> > “It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter 
> > how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong” 
> > Richard Feynman, Nobel Laureate in Physics
>
>
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--

“It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how 
smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong” Richard 
Feynman, Nobel Laureate in Physics


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Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net.
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Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

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