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OK, then try to train an elk, which DOES have a very similar herd hierarchy.  You actually underscore kat's point, instead of diminishing it--you have to use your brain to become the dominant part of the horse's hierarchy in order to train it.  You can't simply use your physical power to "force" horses to do things--you have to cause the horse to realize that you are the herd leader and that he'd be better off to comply with what you ask. 

 

But bottom line, if you are not successful in doing that, she is right--you can't "force" him to do your bidding.

 

Heidi

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [RC]   Understanding the horse partnership
From: Dodie Sable <dodiesable@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, July 28, 2006 8:18 am
To: heidi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, dodie@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

I'm not so sure that I did miss her point.  And a Moose does not have the same herd heirarchy as a horse, they're loners most the year, independant and not dependant on a herd for survival.  However, should you come across a moose to be trained, I will accept that challenge.

 

I am not challenging anyone's ability to train or partner with a horse...simply stating that I disagreed with the broad statement made about a horse's intents.

 

 

 

heidi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

Again, Dodie, you missed kat's point.  The whole point of training is to teach the horse that it is IS in his best interest to want to do what you ask. 

 

I know kat, and she can train circles around most folks on this list, myself included.  Her horses are well-mannered at events, and do pretty much exactly what she asks.  But that's the point.  She has trained them, and the only reason that she or anyone else can do so is because the horse allows it and works well as a team member with a person.

 

If you don't believe her statement, go try to train a moose.

 

Heidi 

I am still somewhat surprised (although I suppose I shouldn't be) by the number of people who are sufficiently conceited about their own power that they think horses have no say in what they do. Your horse is bigger, stronger, and faster than you are...he does exactly and only what he damned well pleases. Horses only comply with our own requests because they are good natured

~~~~~~~~~

Whew...I ordinarily wouldn't get into this thread except this statement sent me rolling across the floor in a fit of laughter. The equines that I have been training for the past 25+ years must be of a different branch on the equus tree...because all that I've learned about horses in those years is that horses [in general] are quick to allow the smarter stronger horse in the herd take control and lead for survival purposes.  It is this nature which gives us the ability to train them as a riding/driving/working partner with little effort.  While there are gregarious independent individuals who "do exactly as they please" and no amount of training will change their behaviors and attitudes, those horses are rare and do not make suitable partners for human/horse relationships.

And over the years, the horses I have trained have trained me as much as I have trained them.  Any rider who doesn't believe that statement should hang up his chaps and get a goldfish.

Dodie

"Smile and infect your opponent.”

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