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Re: [RC] Wintec Wide/going from treeless back to conventional saddle - Karen SullivanInteresting post for me as I am having a problem with the Sport Saddles on my 5 year old Arab/paint mare; after riding these saddles basically trouble free for over 10 years. She is both very wide and high in the withers. I had been riding her in a training and Schooling model with stirrups back.....and am now realizing that it is too tight under the pommel, at the sides. So I tried my old endurance model, which has the old type front (not peaked) and found it fit in the pommel area....but sat on her withers. However, she moved so wonderfully in it, compared to the other....that I took the plunge and had the front of the saddle slit and cut back to clear the withers. Am still testing it..... Here are some thoughts: Treeless saddles can't improve or ruin your position unless they have the stirrups in a good or bad position....if that makes sense. I have two SS with the stirrups moved way back...and feel I ride very balanced in a dressage position. Yes, it is still not like riding in a saddle with a twist, and your legs are harder to get on the horse....but you can still ride balanced and manage to give the horse correct cues..... People who get in sport saddles and hate them often are trying the wrong seat size and stirrup position. My friends also have a couple horses that have prominent spines or croups and probably need a saddle that is lifted off the spine more on either side. Again, we are looking at modifying the sportsaddle; although one friend has a Kieffer that fits her horse and she used for lessons and trail occasionally. Other friend (hi Kim) just got a terrific deal on a Wintec pro endurance with the wide gullet. First try on her horse and it did seem to be a bit tight through the gullets area, but maybe we had it too far forward. Still needs to be tweaked. Tried on my mare it was still way too tight on her... so that saddle is a no go for me. It was odd to sit in a treed saddle again......but not too awful. What I sort of object to with the English style saddles in general is that the way they are designed hangs the stirrup bar off the front of the tree...which has tree "points" that bear down in the front. Seems just plain logic that when if you stand in the saddle; you are jamming the front part down in front.....I just feel this is a very poor design, and many english saddles have stirrups too far forward anyway....... Like this poster, I am also curious about the Wintec Wide.....but even if it seemed to fit my mare, I am still not sure about that stirrup design. It is a new design and saddle, so I am sure there is not that much practical info on it yet.... I am still unconvinced that a saddle needs a tree to work. I watch my mares backs, from side and behind and see so much flex and change of shape I do not believe a stiff tree would be comfortable, no matter how well they seem to fit on a standing still horse. I have sat in a Free and Easy, and truly did not like all the "stuff" between me and the horse. You are perched up so high off their back, how can you be balanced? I also did not like the design of pining the tree to the flexible panels in 4 places..... But the Wintec pro endurance did sit the rider fairly close to the horses back....and it did seem like you could feel some flex in the tree.... Ansur is totally out for me.....sat in several, disliked them.....and refuse to pay that much for a saddle that sits right on the withers!!! May be okay for schooling in an arena or short rides but I can't see all day in it..... What I would truly like is an English style treeless.....with a knee roll, panels with a gullet and wither clearance, that hangs the rigging and stirrups in a way that they distribute weight over the panel.....so far the only saddle I have found that seems to have accomplished this is the Harmony from Canada....huge waiting list on those but I am seriously considering it...... The Heather Moffit English Treeless (forget which style) is also of interest.....pretty pricey Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Casemier" <kcrazzmatazz@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: <ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 8:50 AM Subject: [RC] Wintec Wide/going from treeless back to conventional saddle Couple of questions, related to each other. I've been riding my mare in a treeless (originally Sportsaddle, now just got a new Barefoot). She has a very broad, flatback and is also short backed/short coupled. (14.3 Morgan). The treeless (both models) seem to work well for her, but I just cannot seem to really get a good position. I have recently started working with our young QH gelding in a Wintec Pro dressage saddle, and immediately I was able to sit more correctly and quietly. I know many people feel the treeless saddles make you improve your position, but my recent experiences are showing me that I am developing some bad habits riding in a treeless saddle. I am much quieter, more balanced, and therefore more effective in a well-fitting treed saddle. I think because I have short, muscular legs, and my mare is so flat and broad, that without some help from a tree, I just cannot correctly get my legs around her barrel. Are there others who have gone from conventional to treeless, and then returned back to conventional? My mare's shape is perfect for treeless saddles, but I don't think mine is ;>) I've had some issues with my flatwork with her, and the more I work with my other horse, I think the issues are because of my imbalance (she is VERY sensitive to shifting weight). I do not want to compromise my mare's comfort - she is so difficult to fit because of that flat back - and if I cannot find a reasonably priced conventional saddle that works for both of us, I'll continue to stick it out in the treeless. I am particularly interested in trying the new Wintec Wide saddle, as I need something that I can adjust as my mare gets fit and then as I let her down somewhat over the winter. I am also on a TIGHT budget (husband in vet school - YIKES). I generally really like the Wintecs, and have actually sat in one of these saddles and felt comfortable in it. I'm just wondering if it truly does accomodate those flat backed ponies. I did check the archives, but there are only a couple of informative posts about this specific saddle. Anyone who has experiences to share about either issue - returning to conventional saddles in general or with the Wintec wide specifically - I'd appreciate it. Thanks! Karen, and Mazzie who is sick of Karen flopping all over =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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