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Re: [RC] travelling wide - rides2farI apologize to anybody I'm boring talking too much about my own horses...but I've thought of just about everything I can think of to analyze my guys and welcome all the free knowledge available here. I could take it private but then might miss a clue that somebody lurking catches. Kat, You analysis is interesting. I just hope I'm giving you accurate info to go on. I'm going to send you some photos and see if you see clues. Can't find a rear view of him at a trot so I may have to get out the digital camara. Might take a day to do that. Headed to town right now. I think any analysis done on him now is just for us all to catalog for our own education. I'm probably retiring him soon so I guess this could be sort of an analysis of how something turned out rather than our usual guessing how something might actually affect a horse over time. if a horse travels wide behind at the extended trot> but tracks up straight at other gaits, this is not a conformational thing to do with the way their legs are made. I may be wrong on my whole theory there, but I always thought that a horse's tracks sort of lined up on a canter. It just felt more comfortable to canter if there was only a narrow strip of shoulder to ride. I'll admit I haven't watched him canter from behind because I'm the only one who ever rides him. I have a very good galloping course that requires riding right next to the pavement to stay on level ground. it will travel wide behind ALL the time. I bought Kaboot off a video taken when he was 4 and had been very slightly green broke. In the video he being lunged and trotting a mile wide behind already. It was pretty natural to him. Like I said, he's bowlegged so he travels a bit wide at the walk but in a straight line. So....if your horse tracks straight at the walk and the canter but is> wide behind at the trot, expecially if it is a big extended trot....then> the most likely cause of this is that the horse has hollowed out its back and is heavy on the forehand. I'll go for the heavy on the forehand part, but he's never felt hollow. It really feels like he's bringing that backend up under him well and considering how well he handles downhills bringing that rear end under him I just don't feel hollow...though I am *far* from classically trained. He travels with a very low head when pulling me. If I put any curb action whatsoever on him the head comes up and he's horrible. With the snaffle the head goes down and he braces and pulls when wanting to go faster (which is most of the time) A horse that travels in this way is > not most likely to develop back problems (after all, the reason for it is> because the horse is hollowing out its back and not using the back very> much), but rather front end problems. Because "heavy on the forehand"> means that the front legs will be subjected to more concussion. Our problems have been in the front end, but it was wear on the front of the short pastern bone. Though I never thought he had a long toe, the vet said it was from the wear of the ligaments, etc. across the front of that bone and had us shorten the toes more. I've wondered if the fact that he does such a big trot increased the leverage across that bone. The areas where the joints meet on him look fantastic. He's never had any tendon problems but has slightly strained a suspensory once and tore a tendon sheath once, both in deep sand when we don't train in sand. If you have a horse that has great hind end conformation and a short loin, getting the back and the HQ to do the majority of the work is the> best choice. However, if the horse has a weak back and/or poor HQ conformation, but well conformed front legs, transferring the work to> the front end is a good idea, wanting the back and the hind legs to do> the work would be counter productive (to say the least). Well, Julie Bullock DVM said he's "as long as a train" which I'd never really thought he was. Her horses have such short backs that I wondered where she sat her saddle. >g< The arab breed as a whole, is not noted for is good HQ conformation Ben & Kaboot are as different as night and day. Ben has a flat croup and straight hind leg. Kaboot's got slope and a hunter's bump. Once more, I'll send photos and you can disect us if you like. :-) All that said, you won't catch me wanting my horses to travel wide behind. But endurance isn't the only thing I do with my horses AND I almost never ask my horses to do an extended trot. If I want to go faster than a working trot, I let my horses canter. :) Just wondering. What would you do on a 100? I can handle cantering even the majority of a 50 but feel you've just got to have that big trot to get through that 100. Angie ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. 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