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Re: [RC] Preventing Treated Horses at Rides - Ideas Please - Howard BramhallI'm not sure where Bob gets the idea that having a horse hooked up to an IV is a sign of "honor." I could not disagree with him more concerning this. When this happens at a ride, the rider/owner is usually crying and there are tons of friends trying to console them. This is not an honorable position to be in. It's scary and everyone I've ever seen who has gone through this takes it very seriously. I like Stagg's idea, but, I must say, if AERC was to try and implement such a thing wouldn't we be regulating our rides to the lowest common denominator of rider by doing this? The rider must know their horse better than anyone else. Checking the pulse rate of your horse is something that all riders must do during the vet check holds. Knowing those numbers of your particular horse, what is normal, what is not, inside and out is crucial. If you're not doing this, you should learn how to do so, or get someone to teach you. It's that important! The bottom line is, if there's a problem at a ride, perceived or real, pull your horse. Do it yourself, you really don't have to have the vet do it for you. The completion should not be so important that you take a chance on that which is. The horse. cya, Howard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Morris" <bobmorris@xxxxxxxx> To: <Stagg_Newman@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; <ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Cc: <staggandcheryl@xxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 11:43 AM Subject: RE: [RC] Preventing Treated Horses at Rides - Ideas Please Stagg: I must agree with Heidi and the Hausers that having the vet check the horse just prior to leaving is a much better control situation. On arriving at a vet check the horse is still "up" and some problematic factors will be unnoticeable. Another point is the current practice of not placing FULL RESPONSIBILITY for the welfare of the horse upon the rider. I see a trend for the riders to expect the vets to have that control. When we early in the sport it was a stigma to have a horse that needed treatment. If you lost a horse at a ride you had quite a reputation to recover from. Now-a-days having a horse hooked up to a "jug" is almost a sign of honor. In my mind (and many persons do believe it is warped) there should be a provision for having a competitor "set down", as in flat track racing, for things such as allowing a horse to get into a condition requiring treatment. Another punishable position would be where the Vet needs to tell the rider the horse is not fit to continue. The Preferable situation is the rider telling the Vet the horse is not in condition to continue. So, my position on greatly reducing the number of treated horses is to make the rider the first line of responsibility. To quote from the AERC Rules and Regulations "The AERC services the requirements of the competitor by promulgating and establishing rules and regulations, recording and publishing results of events, and providing awards; but the competitor is ultimately responsible for self and mount before, during and after an endurance ride" Let us start to mitigate the problem by strictly enforcing this maxim. Bob Bob Morris Morris Endurance Enterprises Boise, ID -----Original Message----- From: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Stagg_Newman@xxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 8:38 PM To: ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Cc: staggandcheryl@xxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [RC] Preventing Treated Horses at Rides - Ideas Please Folks, Would like to start on a thread on ideas of how to prevent treated horses at rides. IMO greatly reducing the number of treated horses is one of the most important actions we can take to improve the sport. Moreover with increased scrutiny from animal welfare activists and others, it is one of the most important. And it is the right thing to do for the horse. I would suggest separating the discussion into three areas: 1. What are the reasons we have to treat horses and the early warning signs? As Dr. Jeannie Waldron frequently says, one of the problems is "we just don't know enough". So what do we need to do to learn more? 2. What are actions that we as riders and crew can take to prevent our horses from needing treatment? 3. What if any changes should ride management or ride vets consider to prevent horses from needing treatment? I will offer to compile the ideas received and then distribute to ridecamp. And if warranted we can the get the ideas more widely disseminated as I firmly believe rider education may be our most important tool. In order to get the discussion going, here is my first idea. WE AS RIDERS SHOULD TAKE THE HORSE'S PULSE JUST BEFORE LEAVING A HOLD AND ACT ACCORDINGLY. Rationale: I believe one of the best indicators of how a horse is doing is the pulse at the end of the hold period. My belief is the pulse of the horse that is doing well should continue to decline during the hold period. If at the end of the hold period the pulse is down into the 40s then the horse is not likely to have metabolic problems on the next loop. On the other hand if the horse's pulse is hanging at 60 or has gone even higher than at the vetting in, that is a red flag the something is wrong. A few rides have tried exit checks at some holds and they do seem to find some horses that are starting to have problems. But we as riders do not need to rely on ride management. We can check the horse's pulse and then if we are concerned check with the veterinarians, slow our pace, and/or withdraw. In addition to posting on Ridecamp, please cc me directly at staggandcheryl@xxxxxxxxxxx since work sometimes interferes with my keeping up to date on Ridecamp. Have to pay for the horse somehow :>) Stagg Newman +---------------------------------------------------------+ This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. +---------------------------------------------------------+ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-=-=-=-= Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. 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