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RE: [RC] vets?--colic - Bob MorrisFirst go back to "cause and effect" We know the effect but are pondering the cause. Colic, an all encompassing term that describes the symptoms. Even human babies are described as having colic at times. They seldom die from it though. It is time that we dropped this vague term and settle for the facts of what the cause is. Facts couched is basic physiologic terms that are definitive. We can be sure that the ultimate cause is because the heart and brain stopped functioning but what was the proximate cause that brought on the final stage. In the Sept. EN Laura did a fine job of describing the events and symptoms leading to a fatality. But no proximate cause was determined for the event. We can have hundreds of such cases but with out the cause we do not have the entire story. We do not know what phase of the underlying incidents was the determinant. All the schemes put forth regarding mentors, restrictions on new riders, stricter vetting, longer and more stops are just schemes based on little or no determined fact. Is there knowledge that any two of the fatalities, this year, are related by similar cause diagnosis? I would like to hear if there were. Should our Veterinary Committee, with all their endurance competition experience, not be capable of explaining the underlying cause then they should so state and promulgate research into the problem. I would support them to my fullest ability and I am sure that most other concerned riders would also. Bob Bob Morris Morris Endurance Enterprises Boise, ID -----Original Message----- From: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of terre Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 3:27 PM To: ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; AERCMembersForum@xxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [RC] vets?--colic Haven't heard a definitive answer back from any vets yet re: whether stomach ruptures can occur other than as a result of an impaction colic--but several people have posted me privately with examples indicating that they can. So here, in a very convoluted way, is what I am interested in: The most frightening thing, to me, is the horses that suddenly get into trouble, or even die, for no apparent reason. These would be fit, experienced horses ridden well within their capabilities that give no notice to their highly competent riders and vets that there is anything wrong--pass all parameters, etc--and then just suddenly crash. It is frightening because we don't know why it happens, and so we have no way to prevent it; and it does seem to be able to 'happen to anybody'. At least some of these horses seem to be presenting a ruptured stomach, which apparently does not produce the kind of pain an intestinal colic does, and so is harder to detect. We may be diagnosing them better because it is easier now to ship to clinics, etc; perhaps riders are more inclined to ask for necropsies...But even when the cause of death is 'ruptured stomach', we still don't know WHY it ruptured, especially in the absence of an impaction colic. So, my question is: could this be the result of a cumulative effect? Perhaps many small colics, or episodes of stomach distension that may not even have been noticed? We know that some things--especially tying up--can have a cumulative effect. Each episode causes a little more kidney damage until the result can be renal failure. Many times, once a horse does something once--thump, for example--they are more prone to do it again unless the rider makes heroic efforts to prevent it. Could this also be true of 'colic'? How could we know? Are "colics" at rides identical with "colics" at home? Do they/can they produce cumulative damage that can rise up and bite us without notice? The GI tract is the horse's "weakest link". (to disagree with Howard that it is poorly designed; we are just not using it in the way nature intended). I wonder if many horses don't "die of colic" because the heart is simply too strong to fail them, and something has to give... What do you all think? terre =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-=-=-=-= Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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