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Re: [RC] color genetics questions - Zephyr Arabians--- Deanna German <finishis2win@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: I've had my eyes open for years looking for the right black horse. I notice that most of the black in Arabians seems to come from straight Egyptian lines and I really don't care for SE, Blue List or Al-Khamsa Arabians. No flames! It's just a personal bias! When I see an ad that says "hookey neck", I move on! Am I being short-sighted? No flames from me. I think, however, that you should take a look at the horses prior to making a judgement call. Most SEs aren't my cup of tea, either, but occationally one comes along that's pretty nice. :) Do some of these SE show cast-offs actually have the longer hip, longer forearm, proper rear leg angulation, proportions, brains and the substance I'm looking for? I really don't care for the hooky neck, ultra dishy face look. Are some good'uns getting cast off because they don't have these characteristics? Well, I can't think of any black SE breeding programs that are breeding for the show ring. Most that I can think of are breeding for color and have very few horses that end up in halter. So where is the black in Polish, Crabbet and the early American imports? Anyone have any leads? There are some black Polish horses, and there is one black Spanish stallion in the US. I can't think of any black CMKs off the top of my head. The majority of blacks that I can think of are "mixed pedigree" or "American," and unfortunately are mostly show pedigrees (lots of Bey Shah blacks out there for instance). I do know of a black mostly Polish stud that I believe to be of good quality. He's not homozygous (is that the right word?) for black. IF I have a good quality mare with charactieristics that are a match for this stud (which is the only reason I would even consider breeding), what color should she be in order to produce black? Black. If the stallion is heterozygous black (which with a chestnut parent he must be) then he will always have a 50% chance of passing his chestnut gene rather than his black gene. Additionally, any mare *other* than black (or chestnut with two black parents) will have a chance of producing bay with a black stallion. To understand black, you have to grasp the interaction of the extension and agouti loci. I've written some long pieces on this, but I'll try to be brief here. Extension is the black/red or more correctly the not-red/red locus. E=black (not-red) and is dominant to e=red. An Ee or EE horse is black-based (or not-red) and an ee horse is red (chestnut). Agouti is the bay/not-bay or not-black/black locus. A=bay or not-black and a=not-bay or black. The agouti gene only acts on black pigment, so a red horse will "hide" whatever it has at agouti, but will pass one copy to it's offspring, which if black-based will express it's agouti. Confused yet? EEAA, EEAa, EeAA, EeAa are bay EEaa, Eeaa are black eeAA, eeAa, eeaa are chestnut Once you've started to grasp this interaction, you can then start working on percentages and what your chances are for black given the parents' colors. Basically, the best way to get a black horse is to breed TWO blacks (best if at least one is homozygous) or to BUY one. :) Am I right that a grey mare won't produce black? What about bay? A heterozygous grey will have a 50% chance of producing a non-grey foal when bred to a non-grey. What color those non-greys are will depend entirely on what's going on at extension and agouti of both parents. Bay is really risky with trying to get black. Some bays will be Aa and have a 50% chance of passing their "a", but many bays & chestnuts (especially Arabians) are AA at agouti so they will NEVER have a black foal. BTW, can someone explain to me what a "dry face" means when someone is describing their Arabian? It means that there is very little flesh between skin and bone. ~Nicole ===== * Zephyr Arabians & KattWmn Web Design * * http://www.zephyrarabians.com * * http://www.kattwmn.com * * From the "Horse Capital of the USA" Norco, CA * * * * You have the right to remain silent, anything * * you say can be misquoted and used against you. * __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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