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RE: [RC] horse fatalities, 2002 - Bob MorrisOK Steph: I recognize and accept your argument and believe that you have some very valid points. But look at it in this manner; the statement "No specific management or veterinary circumstances have been identified that may have prevented this fatality." used in instance after instance is stock, uncaring and very self serving. To take one of the instances from the AERC Minutes of March 13, 2003, to wit: RE: Horse fatality ? East Bay Ride 9/14/02. Dear Executive Director, The Veterinary Committee has reviewed the information concerning this fatality. No specific management or veterinary circumstances have been identified that may have prevented this fatality. This tragic accident occurred the night before the ride. The horse, a stallion, broke out of his plastic portable pen about 3 a.m. Police found him later on a nearby road. He had sustained a fractured left humerus ad was euthanized. No information was provided regarding the experience of this horse with this portable corral. This fatality points out that all aspects of horse care is important, including their stabling arrangement while at a ride. Making certain they are familiar and comfortable with restraint/stabling methods before going to a ride can be critical?even then accidents can occur. Rider education about all aspects of horse safety is indicated. Respectfully, AERC Veterinary Committee, Now this is not the first instance of this type of incident. This is a recurring cause of horse injuries often resulting in euthanasia. This type of accident has been happening for many years and yet the immediate investigation can identify any circumstance that would have prevented it? I would present to you the following analysis of the aforementioned incident, done with no more knowledge than that supplied in the minutes. First a stallion; Most state animal regulations have very strict conditions concerning the confinement of stallions. They determine the heights of fences, the type of materials and other such things. These regulations are not made whimsically. Second, also concerning the confinement of a stallion; In the past it was always recommended (yes, I am referring to the good old days) that the stallion be tethered directly to your trailer utilizing a halter and directly tied lead rope. In addition a separate neck rope was to be used as a back up restraint. Third; it was stated "No information was provided regarding the experience of this horse with this portable corral." Was any solicited? If not why not? While we are commenting on a very emotional subject we must consider the ramifications of such actions. To just reduce it to a stock form is barely a step above "check the closest appropriate box". Good to talk with you the other day. Bob Bob Morris Morris Endurance Enterprises Boise, ID -----Original Message----- From: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Steph Teeter Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 12:33 PM To: ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [RC] horse fatalities, 2002 I'm going to jump into the fray here, because I happen to disagree - I think the statement by the veterinary committee is acceptable. Let's look at the statement again: "No specific management or veterinary circumstances have been identified that may have prevented this fatality." Why is this unnacceptable? Obviously 'something' caused these deaths - dehydration, freak accident, dangerous section of trail, spooked horse in camp... The veterinary committee is not trying to say that there was no cause for the deaths. Only that they did not identify any SPECIFIC things that management and veterinarians did or did not do that might have contributed to the accidents: i.e. there is no obvious blame to be placed, and no grounds for disciplinary action against ride management and veterinarians. I think the letter sent by the Vet committee to members was very clear in defining this sport as an inherently dangerous, and physically difficult sport, and that riders and owners need to be aware of this. And I strongly su pport their letter - horses are big dumb fearful (but beautiful!) animals, and we are asking them to perform incredible athletic feats, as well as get through all of the trail/camp/vet/travel hazards that exist. Both veterinarians and ride managers have an enormous responsibility - and pretty much use AERC rules as their guidelines. I suspect there are many cases where vets (and ride managers) have doubts or concerns about horses but the rules of competition still have to be adhered to - it would not be acceptable for a vet to pull a horse that met all AERC rules - veterinary criteria. If (for example) a rider is pushing a horse harder than is prudent, the only thing vets and RM's can do is give advice and warning - this alone is not sufficient cause to disqualify a competitor. It isn't simple - and I think it's a bit harsh to accuse the vet committee of 'inane statements'. Steph -----Original Message----- From: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Bob Morris Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 10:53 AM To: walkergirl@xxxxxxxxxx; ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [RC] horse fatalities, 2002 I believe that Howard's prime argument was about the statement <<<"No specific management or veterinary circumstances have been identified that may have prevented this fatality.">>> This is tantamount to stating that fatalities are inevitable and we should just accept that they will occur. In the real world, every accident has a proximate cause and a possible preventative. In the case of a broken leg or fall off the trail it could be nothing more than a more prudent rate of travel. I agree with Howard that the above statement has no place in the analysis of endurance competition related fatalities. If the vets cannot come up with a worthwhile comment then they should refrain from such inane CYA statements. Bob Morris Morris Endurance Enterprises Boise, ID -----Original Message----- From: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of A. Perez Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 10:37 AM To: ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [RC] horse fatalities, 2002 Good post, Howeard. I do find it interesting to note, though, that deaths due to metabolic failure are those you suggest are preventable, whereas death due to broken legs/necks from falling off the trail are an accepted hazard. Are some trails just too risky for endurance races? What exactly causes these accidents - are horses stumbling? Spooking? Being run off the trail? Is rider error at fault (failure to keep safe distance between horses, failure to watch where they are going)? Should ride-managers be more careful in planning routes? I ride some pretty hairy trails, and am no coward when it comes to technical riding, but I have never 'fallen off' a trail or seen anyone else do so... it seems to me to be a pretty avoidable hazard - or is it? ________________________________________________ Get your own "800" number Voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-=-=-=-= Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-=-=-=-= Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. 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