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[RC] Fw: [RC] to Lindsey--long response.... Rearing (slightly OT) - Adele HHi Lindsey, John Lyons says teach the "head down" command.....a horse can't be rearing if he is head is down and that is taught from the ground; and then communicated through the reins from the saddle. So back to basics. He would also say you don't go to the next step unless you (or rather, the horse) have the first one down pat. That said, I don't know what schedules you are on, what kind of "working with" you are doing, and what reason you are doing it or what experience you have. First, let me say I am not a trainer....second, I had a mare (still have her for 24 yrs, she's 32) that would do all of what yours is doing and more.. This horse could be dangerous as mine was...and this I had to fix (she only pulled it with me) and this was long before John Lyons...I wished I could have pawned this off on a "cowboy" or sent him back to the "trainer" as there was always risk of off-balancing the horse and flipping her over. But we'll talk about rearing first......I believe there are many ways to fix this and depends on whether you are on the ground or in the saddle when they do it; Some are more humane than others and I think John Lyons method of today would work the best if the horse was taught, learned and responded to it.... Mine used to rear and spin as well (used that habit to my advantage at one point to do "keyhole" races, but that is another story).... After the rear and spin, she would proceed to start walking so I put it all together; at first when she would start to go up, making sure I wasn't going to get my nose bashed but in an upright position as possible, I would direct rein hard down by my knees being careful not to pull her over, into the same direction she was headed, giving forward movement leg commands (I put on English spurs for a while) and when she landed forced her into circles, circles, circles until she was dizzy......(or almost! I was! LOL) and then continued on my way doing something different.......took my time...She would pretty much do this anytime SHE didn't want to cross water, bridge, it was hot, it was cold!! whatever!!..I then realized that she was really responsive to a crop (I actually used rommel reins) and up until then, had never used anything on her.......I then added that to the mix, a little tough to do (almost not enough hands or time)......I always told her "NO" (we sometimes forget they do respond to words..) She then began (and maybe did all along and I never realized) to give me a signal......It was almost as if she would think for a second whether she should or shouldn't and it was in her ear, a very slight hesitance in the body (and I am sure you pretty much can tell when it's coming now).......Now I would flap the reins on her side and a big NO......At that point, if she even THOUGHT about it, circles, circles circles..... We did circles all over New England...They hate tight circles. We got her to the point where I could "feel" the possibility (this would be the point to use the "head down" command had we known it) and if she didn't think it out and do what I wanted, I would very slightly pick up the rommel and hold it in my hand....and she could see it....her fear of the punishment would stop her...... Oh, and then I got her on the trail (my mare had started acting up because she was becoming tired of working in the ring)...and we did the miles, miles, miles........ The bucking...different horse--loved to buck but not a nasty "get off my back"...just a yahooey!! but being he was shortbacked it wouldn't take much to send you over the highside. Had to keep his head up a bit higher the first or second canter out ALWAYS. And spinning........I always tried to keep her spinning longer then she wanted to if I could.......and when I stopped, asked for something else immediately..... If she wanted to spin, then I let it be my decision when to stop and where I was going....She learned pretty quickly..... This logic years ago pretty much is the same as Lyons. This is sort of like "so you want to run?....let's go...." Not sure what the John Lyons methods for fixing the bucking would be..........but I do know that much of his teaching envolves the horse finally making the decision to do what you want or else they have to work. Nothing worse that a smart *ss horse, eh?.....But you gotta love them.....personalities are amazing.... So, you can certainly do the "head down" training.....but you might want someone else to do it if you chose the other way.....Just my experience...hope this helps a little Adele CT ----- Original Message ----- From: <Lra1222@xxxxxx> To: <ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2003 1:59 PM Subject: [RC] Rearing (slightly OT) Hi all. I am working with a 4 year old Arab gelding who has had 2 years of "professional training." He behaves really well for a while, then acts, well, FOUR, and then is good again. He was trained for hunter pleasure, then got 7 months off, and I have been working him for about a month now. He is EXTREMELY smart- when he learns he can't get away with one thing, he tries something else. OK, so down to the problem-- his new evasive tactic is rearing-- which I HATE!! I can deal with bucking and spinning, which he also tries occasionally, but not rearing. I don't want him to fall over on top of me, ya know?! I have checked saddle fit, teeth, etc. and can't find anything that may be causing pain. I really think he is just acting his age! I just want to find out how to stop the rearing before one or both of us gets hurt! Any ideas? He is not my horse, but I do work him 3-4 times a week. I try to vary the routine so that he doesn't get bored, hoping that will help with the problem. He has reared about 4-5 times now, and I am sick of it. As far as trying to keep him moving forward, I try- he will slam on the brakes just to rear and spin. AUGGGHHH! Okay, this is long enough, just trying to give some background info. Thanks in advance for your help-- ya'll are a wealth of info, so I figured someone would have an idea!!! Lindsey M21756 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- http://www.endurance.net/ads/seabiscuit.html Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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