Re: carbs/fats (here we go again! long msg.)

[Tivers@aol.com]

In a message dated 2/19/99 5:50:30 PM Pacific Standard Time,
ribbitttreefrog@yahoo.com writes:

<< OK, I am very curious, and am obviously a sucker for this stuff, but
 here goes anyway:
 
 Can someone out there give us a list of examples of high carb horse
 foods?>

Sugar, starch, and foods with high sugar content. Grain, carrots, fruits
(although fructose has some odd characteristics that may actually hinder some
of the benefits seen with the glucose-producing carbohydrates.


 And how about high fat?>

Purina Athlete. Cups and cups of a variety of oils. Rendered fat added to a
feed.  
 
 > Now, if I feed fats during training and conditioning rides (BTW, I
 feed about 1/2 cup corn oil every evening - it helps the rolled oats
 stick to the VitE/Se powder) and then give small amts. of carbs during
 a ride (is this what I think I understand Susan that you are
 recommending.) >

That's fine. No overload there.
 
 >Now back to the tying up horse:
 
 Should we have any blood tests on him right now? (Not really training
 or conditioning yet, will be starting in March when we get shoes.) >

If he's currently tying up, then a blood test is a good idea just to see how
bad it is. If you suspect that he has been tying up, due to observed muscle
soreness, then a test would again be a good idea. But if he's fine now, just
keep in mind that you'll want to avoid inconsistent day to day exercise as he
comes fit and you'll want to be sure that his carbohydrate intake supports the
exercise.
 
 >With this horse, both tie-up episodes were soooo completely different!
 1.  cold, no rump rug, electrolytes the night before and 2 hours
 before the ride, and the stress of trailering and the excitement of
 the ride itself.
 2.  Hot muggy day, no electolytes at all, no stress, riding with his
 barn buddy and he got to be in front where he is comfortable. 
 And we know that he is not seriously deficient in selenium, although
 at the time he could have been lower.>

Good, you've got some variables in play and have eliminated others. However,
the events of the days prior to these episodes are just as important. Tapering
back a very fit horse can result in tying up, for example. Local muscle
circulation (lack of it) can be a problem-as when you're swimming in cold
water and your blood vessels shut down to preserve body heat--and you get
cramps. Glycogen depletion can also cause  muscle cramps--the bigger the
muscle, the nastier the results.

From my experience, the most likely candidate for tying up is the skinny filly
that has been burning herself up, is getting muscle sore, and thinks you're
trying to kill her. What part actual emotion plays in this, I don't know--it
may just be coincidental symptoms of the real cause.
 
 >Now ti, what is your year round general feeding program for an
 athletic, lean smooth muscled,(year round) horse? (Remember we're
 talking GENERAL and use laymen's terms please!:)>

It depends on the workload. If I have a racehorse just starting work,
delivering 3 galloping miles a day--belive me that's big time exercise for a
Thoroughbred) I'll be feeding about 12 lbs of 14-16% sweet feed and a like
amount of free-choice grass hay. At six strong miles a day (7 days a week)
I'll be feeding more than 16 lbs of concentrate. I watch the body weight with
an electronic scale and avoid having my horses lose any weight during
cardiovascular or race-specific exercise. I'm very pleased if they gain, very
worried if they lose weight.

 
> Since we are getting ready to start training soon, imagine that he is
 being ridden 3 days per week, approx. 5-10 miles per ride. >

And this is slow work. Not much in the way of Fast twitch fuel draw down (fast
twitch muscle cells are where tying up occurs). Ten lbs of concentrate at the
10 mile figure, along with a cup of corn oil would be my suggestion. Free
choice grass hay. If the horse gets too "hot" to handle, either increase the
exercise load (frequency or distance) or drop the level of concentrate--but
don't let the horse lose weight.
 
 
 
 Heidi >>

ti