Re: RC: Re: Re: water weight

[Tivers@aol.com]

In a message dated 12/23/99 11:20:23 AM Pacific Standard Time, 
CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com writes:

<<  would wonder, too, if the horse is "manufacturing" all this glycogen 
along 
 the trail, rather than using substrates at hand (glucose and VFA's).  Let's 
 look at post-ride weight loss.  I don't have the "moring after" figures for 
 any but the winner at Tevis, so I'll use him as a "one-ratter" here, and add 
 that while he was one of the better among the top finishers for lack of 
 weight loss post ride.  Aurber only lost 40# on Tevis.  (His start weight I 
 don't have--just the overall loss figure--but he's not a big horse and was 
 likely between 800# and 900# at the start.) >

How do you caluclate weight loss without a start weight? What were the 
intakes during the race, in lbs of water and other grain/forage?

> After eating and drinking 
 overnight, he was back to within 20# of his pre-race weight.  Since it takes 
 about 48 hours to entirely recoup glycogen losses (that "Monday-morning 
 post-ride weight gain" that we riders experience) it's pretty safe to say 
 that he has only replaced a part of his glycogen loss, and that most of what 
 he has recouped on Sunday morning is fiber fill in his gut and water loss.>

Given proper post-ex feeding, most of his glycogen reserves could have been 
replenshed in 12 hours. But let's go on.
  
 >So his "net" loss for the entire Tevis is only something slightly more than 
 20#.> 


What do you mean by this "net" figure. Net loss of what? When? Calculated 12 
hours after the ride?

  >Tom tells us that glucose being utilized directly, so any simple carb 
 that he is taking in during the ride is not becoming glycogen.>

Precisely where did I say that? Again, please try not to misquote me to fit 
your own agenda. I went to great lengths to explain why the insulin response 
is necessary to drive the glucose into the muscle as glycogen.  

>  He had a 
 riding time of 12+ hours--so if glycogen were what he was running on, even 
 adjusting for his body weight (let's say 8.5# of glycogen per hour, since 
 he's a little horse, x 12 hours), he'd have to burn over 100# of glycogen if 
 that was his only fuel source.  Nope, don't think so--not with a net weight 
 loss of only 20#. >

And certainly not if you choose to exaggerate your data by leaving out the 
during-ride intakes.

> Did he consume that much carb during that time?  Nope.  I 
 wasn't on his ground crew, but I know the horse from other rides and I'd 
 imagine he ate SOME carb in the form of grain. <>

So, we start out with an inaccurate numbe for weight loss, then no numbers on 
grain and water intake, and we're about to come to a world-rattling 
delusion...

> So we're back to having 
 gotten at least SOME benefit from that nasty old sludge in his colon, 
 percolating out VFA's as he continues to eat roughage and push the whole 
 nasty mess along.  It takes more than one instrument to make an 
orchestra--in 
 this case, a Krebs cycle that is willing to use carbs, VFA's, fats, and even 
 a few chopped-up proteins to keep everything in harmony.
 
 Heidi>

Not even a delusion, an entire Whole Earth philosophy. 

I'd rather stick to the real numbers for a while and figure this thing out. 

ti
  >>


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