Re: Cupped Soles

["Robert Morris" <bobmorris@rmci.net>]

You stated:

<<<<Depends on what she means by cupping. Almost everyone removes some
> sole during the trimming process to avoid sole pressure on the shoes,
> perhaps this is what she means. It's unlikely that you can trim enough
> sole to completely avoid stones without compromising the hoof.>>>>

 I refer you to "The Natural Horse" By Jamie Jackson not for the text but
for the photos of natural horse hooves. The "cupping is not extreme and if
you look closely you will observe that pressure does actually occur to the
sole of the hoof. In fact one of the attributes of the sole and overlapping
frog is to accumulate dirt and mud thus evenly spreading pressure to the
entire sole. The natural unshod hoof takes very little load on the hoof
wall 

You further state:

<<<One interesting theory about stone bruises is that they are caused by
> improper hoof angles. The theory goes.... If the hoof lands heel first
> say, and there is a stone under it, the horse does not sense it, put's
> it's full weight down and the secondary impact of the toe brings the
> sole in contact with the stone and causes the bruise..... If the hoof
> lands flat, then the sole feels the stone right away before the full
> weight is put on the foot and you get a sort of hop or stumble on that
> foot as the horse avoids putting all his weight on it, thus avoiding
> the bruise. The general idea seems to aim for about a 56 degree hoof
> and keep the bars the same distance off the ground (L and R side of
> foot) as a good starting point for most horses, even if their P1-P2-P3
> line suggests another angle>>>

Yes, an interesting theory but just another of those many "old wives tales"
that persist in the equine industry. Take a video of your horse traveling
on a solid smooth surface and then slow it down drastically. You will see
(if your video is of fine enough definition) the hoof lands on the outside
rear quarter and then rotates flat. Then for most athletic horses rotates
off the outside front quarter.  Remember, the correct healthy horse hoof is
not round and symmetrical but develops according to wear.

To state a particular angle for a hoof is, again, just kidding your self
the about the true situation. <<<The general idea seems to aim for about a
56 degree hoof
> and keep the bars the same distance off the ground >>>
This totally ignores the toe and/or heel length. Most horses given a heel
length of a half inch and a toe of three and a quarter inch will have the
correct hoof angle for that horse regardless of what the protractor shows
for the angle. Remember we are talking about the endurance horse not those
other mis-treated  show critters.

 <<<even if their P1-P2-P3
> line suggests another angle>>>
It is the coffin bone that determines the hoof angle not the others. Get
your vet to show you some good comparative X-rays.


I would be happy to discuss this more extensively if you are interested.

Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID

----------
> From: Niccolai Murphy <niccolai_m@yahoo.com>
> To: RideCamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>; lhorn@home.com
> Subject: Re: Cupped Soles
> Date: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 1:53 PM
> 
> Depends on what she means by cupping. Almost everyone removes some
> sole during the trimming process to avoid sole pressure on the shoes,
> perhaps this is what she means. It's unlikely that you can trim enough
> sole to completely avoid stones without compromising the hoof. 
> 
> One interesting theory about stone bruises is that they are caused by
> improper hoof angles. The theory goes.... If the hoof lands heel first
> say, and there is a stone under it, the horse does not sense it, put's
> it's full weight down and the secondary impact of the toe brings the
> sole in contact with the stone and causes the bruise..... If the hoof
> lands flat, then the sole feels the stone right away before the full
> weight is put on the foot and you get a sort of hop or stumble on that
> foot as the horse avoids putting all his weight on it, thus avoiding
> the bruise. The general idea seems to aim for about a 56 degree hoof
> and keep the bars the same distance off the ground (L and R side of
> foot) as a good starting point for most horses, even if their P1-P2-P3
> line suggests another angle.
> 
> So for starters watch your horse and see how the hoof lands, adjust
> accordingly.
> 
> Another way that will help is to use a thicker shoes like the aluminum
> titanium magnesium alloy shoes from Horseshoes 2000. These are pricey
> though and wear a little faster than steel shoes. You can also as for
> wide webbed shoes which will cover more of the bottom of the foot and
> give you a little more defense. There is of course the Easyboot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---Lauren Horn <lhorn@home.com> wrote:
> >
> > In Nancy Loving's excellent book, Go The Distance, she recommends that
> > the sole of the hoof be "cupped" as to help prevent stone
> > bruises/injuries. What I don't understand is, if she advocates
> trimming
> > to a cupped shape or only buying horses whose soles are naturaly
> cupped
> > shaped. Both my farriers say "no way" to trimming and thining the sole
> > to a cupped shape and I haven't had luck with pads (as the shoes fall
> > off). What can I do to prevent stone bruises when riding in rocky
> > terrain?
> > 
> > Lauren
> > 
> > 
> 
> ==
> Nicco Murphy - Poway, San Diego, CA
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>