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RE: [RC] Hypochloremia - heidiKat, thanks for sharing this. I also find all of this interesting in light of the recently-reported piece from the AAEP proceedings in which hyPERchloremia was noted in horses given high levels of supplementation... Heidi -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [RC] Hypochloremia From: "k s swigart" <katswig@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Date: Wed, February 06, 2008 11:14 am To: "Ridecamp" <ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Eleanor Kellon said:It's really small wonder that chloride deficits severe enough to show up as hypochloremia and alkalosis begin to appear as quickly as 2 hours into a ride.Over the years I have participated in Barney Fleming's Pride Project at endurance rides, have had pre and post ride bloodwork done when my horse got into trouble at the 2004 National Championship, and more recently I did my own electrolyte bloodwork experiment. So I just dug up all of these lab test results to see what they said about my horses' chloride status taken pre-ride, at a midpoint vet check, and post-ride (or, for my own little experiment it was pre-ride, immediately post ride, and 20 minutes post ride to measure levels after "recovery" i.e. a chance to eat and drink). In all of these tests the chloride levels were, in about as close to "constant" as I could imagine. Levels ranged from between 98 and 102 mEq/L with one outlier of 104 on the high side which was pre-ride at a 75 miler and one 95, which was actually taken the day following a training ride at home (depending on which lab the report came from, normal reference ranges were from lows of 83 to highs of 110). The endurance ride numbers were taken at rides speeds/times varying from drag riding four days straight at Death Valley (so being out for the full 12 hours with very little chance to do any eating during that 12 hours) to top ten in a 75 miler (where I actually did probably closer to 83 miles because I got VERY off course following some ribbons put out by a different group and didn't realize it until I got to their stable). In my own little eletrolyte experiment, I had two horses (the one I was testing, and the one I was using for control) go out together on the hottest day I could get (which means temperatures over 100 deg F) and ran their butts off in the hills of the Santa Ana mountains for a couple of hours so I could get them to sweat like pigs. My purpose, incidentally, was to test magnesium levels since none of the Pride Project results I had included magnesium (more on that below). As I stated, in none of these bloodwork results did anything outside the range of completely normal show up for levels of chloride, even though the levels and intensity of work as well as time, terrain, and weather varied dramatically. In fact, in MY lab results (although I have not done a variance analysis to confirm it) general perusal of them shows that chloride is the one parameter that shows the least variability. Susan Garlinghouse and Barney Flemming (who collected data from more than just my horses and lots of rides) would know whether my results were different from what they observed in the general population. However, if you ask ME...the forgotten electrolyte is magnesium. I had to do my own little eletrolyte experiment because up until then, NONE of the blood work that I had for any of my horses for anything, at ride or no, included magnesium on it at all. When I did my experiment, we had to make a special request of the lab to analyse magnesium levels in the samples. So yes, I think magnesium is the forgotten electrolyte, not only because nobody checks for it unless you make a special request or because my own little electolyte experiment showed values ranging from 2.8 pre, 1.4 post, 1.9 post "recovery" for one horse and 4.5 pre, 1.3 post, 1.9 post "recovery" for the other one (with a reference range of 1.4 to 1.9 mg/dL) which shows substantial variability from above normal to below normal quite quickly (while chloride levels on the same tests were 101,98,100 and 102,unk,99 for the other). In addition, since some of the effects of hypomagnesmia are ataxia, seizures and death, I think it would be prudent that we not forget about the electrolyte magnesium. I can't say for sure about chloride, except that I have tons of bloodwork for my horses at varying stages of varying types of exercise with virtually no variability in the chloride levels. Consequently, I have never thought to concern myself over it. At only two of these rides did I do any oral supplementation (other than feed) of electrolytes, and that was a handful of salt (plain NaCl I made a point of avoiding KCl because at that point I thought my problem might be hyperkalemia) a couple of times during the ride on the 75 miler. Although I confess that the commercial feed supplements that I have used at rides all are fortified with assorted electrolytes, I couldn't tell you exactly how much or exactly how much my horses eat of them, pretty much as much as they are interested in whenever I feel like giving it to them (I take it with me on the trail). kat Orange County, Calif. p.s. If you tell me which, if any, of the parameters on all of my bloodwork can give me an idea of the alkyosis status of my horse, I can also tell you whether any of those numbers have appeared out of range. Alk. Phosphate did, in all of them ride as the rides progressed, but never to more than 181 U/L (well below the 280 that is given as the high side of normal). =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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