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Joe Long said:

> The point is that the sliding price scale is applied
> even though the cost to the theater is the same.
> Using your point, note that riding 50 miles includes
> extra "perks" (such as more trail and more riding
> time) that the LD riders do not get.
While several people have, by their responses to Joe, had the
disquieting feeling that his analogy to theater seats does not apply to
the pricing of ride entries, they haven't been able to put their finger
on why.  And, BTW, it assumes that theaters DO price discriminate in
their seat sales with respect to seat location (not all do, movie
theaters gave up on doing that long ago, and price discriminate based on
the age of the patron, not the location of the seat, they let people
line up for their own seat selection).

But here it is (or more accurately, here they are since there is more
than one; although the first one I mention is the biggest one):

Joe is not taking into account the fact that seats in a theater are a
scarce resource.  I.e. there is a limited number of them and the theater
owner can, for each performance, sell only a fixed number of the "good
ones."  And after he has sold them, then they are sold out; and he has a
fixed number of the less good ones.

So....the big reason that theater owners price discriminate on the
location of seats in their theater, despite the fact that all the seats
"cost the same produce" (although, that is not entirely true, more on
that below), is that after they have sold out of the good seats (the
ones with the best view), they only have the less good ones left to
sell.

This dynamic is not true of endurance rides (or, at least, not any
endurance ride I have ever gone to).  For most endurance rides, there is
no limit on the number of riders, so the ride manager is not going to
"run out" of 50 mile ride entries and only have LD ride entries left to
sell, consequently, there is no reason to charge a "premium" for the
more desireable experience (assuming that it is one, more on that below
as well).

For those rides that I have been to that DO have a limit on entries, the
limit, invariably, has been on total entries (in whatever distance they
sign up for) so.....if a ride manager were to charge less for an LD ride
than a 50 miler, then that ride manager, if it had to turn away 50
milers because of the ride limit, would be losing out on revenue by
accepting LD entries at a lower price.

Additionally (as alluded to above), Joe is also wrong in assuming that
all the seats in the theater cost the same to produce.  I am going to
assume (like Joe did for the sake of argument) that all the physical
chairs in the theater DID actually cost the same to construct/install
(though this may not be true).   However, even if it is true, the
"seats" (i.e. a location to watch the performance and production of the
performance) did NOT all cost the same to produce.  The production of
theater seats is almost entirely made up of fixed costs (i.e. it costs
the same no matter how many seats you sell); consequently, the FIRST
seat you sell costs a fortune, and every one after that costs virtually
nothing (this, BTW, is also why airlines perform their absolutely
cockamamie pricing mechanisms).

And while it is true that many of the costs associated with putting on
an endurance ride are fixed costs, not all of them are; and some of them
can be made higher by having and LD ride as well.

Additionally (as alluded to above and as alluded to by Kim), Joes makes
a mistake in thinking that a 50 mile ride is, by definition, a more
desirable experience. If that were so, everybody would take the 50 mile
ride instead of the LD ride if the ride manager did not price
discriminate (as would almost invariably happen if their were an
unlimited number of "good seats" in the theater and everybody who wants
one could have one for the same price as the less good seats).  However,
we have just had a very LONG and protracted discussion about how some
people, for whatever, reason, actually PREFER LD rides to 50 mile rides.
In fact, I would be so bold as to suggest that everybody who signs up
for an LD ride does so because the LD ride is their preference and that
they aren't doing so because it is cheaper (if it even is).  The very
fact that people DO sign up for the LD ride even when it is the same
price as the 50 miler tells you that some people (for whatever reason)
consider the LD ride to be a more desirable experience.

Joe, if he denies himself entry into an LD ride just because somebody
else is paying the same price for something he doesn't want (i.e. the 50
mile ride, because presumably, if he wanted the 50 mile ride experience
he would enter the 50 mile ride), is being an idiot.  He is especially
being an idiot if he denies himself entry into an LD ride with an entry
fee of, say, $50 because $50 is also the entry fee of the 50 miler, and
instead attends an LD ride with an entry fee of, say, $75 which is
acceptable to him because the 50 milers will have to pay $100.

The question riders should ask themselves, when entering a ride (at
whatever distance) is, "Is the experience I am hoping for worth the
price that I am being asked to pay for it?"  How much other people are
paying for a different experience that they don't want is (or should be)
totally irrelevant (for those of you who want to better understand this
concept, I refer you to the parable of the laborers in the vineyard in
Matthew 20:1-8).

If you are being asked to pay the same amount for the LD ride that you
do want to enter, the fact that you could, instead, get an entry in a 50
mile ride that you don't want to enter shouldn't matter to you.  If you
feel cheated that you are being offered what you consider to be a less
desirable experience (the LD ride) and being asked to pay the same price
for it, there is NOTHING stopping you from entering what you consider to
be the more desirable experience (the 50 miler) for the same price.

People who want to pay less for an LD ride despite the fact that the LD
experience is their preference (on that day or on all days) are, in
fact, asking to be charged less for what THEY consider to be a more
desirable experience.  Personally, I consider this to be a totally
unreasonable expectation.

Joe, if you consider the 50 miler to be the more preferable experience
for the same price, enter the 50 miler.  I don't know of ANYBODY at ANY
endurance ride who has ever been told, "I am sorry, the 50 miler is
full, but you can enter the LD ride for the same price (or even for a
discounted price) because we have plenty of those entries left."

This does happen at the theater, and would happen all the time if the
theater didn't price discriminate by charging more for the seats with
the best view.

kat
Orange County, Calif.
:)

p.s.  How and why airlines have even more convoluted pricing practices
(understatement) also has little to do with the pricing of endurance
and/or LD rides; although it DOES have a lot to do with that whole fixed
cost/the first seat is the only what that costs anything to produce
thing.  Doctoral theses have been written about airline seat pricing
strategies, and since airlines in the aggregate have lost more money
than they have ever made, it is hardly a good business model to be
emulating. Although, in recent years, the most successful airlines have
been those that DON'T price discriminate based on seat location but
allocate seats on the "line up for the movie theater" concept.





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