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Re: [RC] [RC] Barefoot/Bob Marshall/Fhoenix/Freeform Comparison - Beverley H. Kane, MD

Plan is to either wait for the new Endurance models with the poleys & better
billet buckles -or- buy a used Classic. Additional info: at least one of the
top FF riders is a HW.


On 3/3/07 1:47 PM, "Ranelle Rubin" <raneller@xxxxxxx> wrote:


Good Data..one additoinal piece of info is if you ARE considering a classic
Freeform, get in touch with Chris Martin NOW before all the in stock models
are gone. They are 25% off which brings them to $1100.00 and change
depending on which one you get...

Day three of Desert Gold, 3 out of the first 4 riders in were in Freeforms,
the other one in a BMS!

Go Treeless!

Ask me about our newest course, "The Couple's Retreat" in the Smoky
Mountains of Tennessee

Ranelle Rubin
Coaching and Consulting Services
The Coaching Center

ranelle@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
raneller@xxxxxxx
877-643-0132 toll free number
916-663-4140 home office
916-718-2427 cellular
916-848-3662 fax





From: "Beverley H. Kane, MD" <sensei@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "treelesssaddles@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <treelesssaddles@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
CC: RideCamp <ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [RC]   Barefoot/Bob Marshall/Fhoenix/Freeform  Comparison
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 12:00:58 -0800

Yesterday I had the opportunity to ride in a Heather Moffatt Fhoenix
dressage saddle, bringing to 4 the number of treeless saddles I've
experienced. So here is a little report on all 4 saddles.

Executive Summary: All things considered, I like the Freeform best and will
probably get one to replace my Barefoot Cheyenne. I might wait til the new
FF models come out, and get one if I think that the FF is as universal
(fits
almost all horses) as the BFC.


ME:
----
Height:       5¹4 1/2² in Ariat Dumas, short legs w/ Sagittarius thighs
Weight:      120 Summer/125 Winter (burning those extra 5# during Lent!)
Rider type: riding x 5 yrs, English, Western, "cowboy dressage";
                 endurance/trail; mainly ride other people's endurance
                 horses

In order of how recently I've ridden in them:

HM FHOENIX
--------------
Configuration: Black dressage model w/ English leathers & stirrups, fuzzy
                     dressage girth; bare seat; no breast collar or
crupper
Age/Mileage:   New, probably less than 10 miles; bought for 5'7" 170#
person
                     + 16.2 warmblood eventer
Pad:               My Equipedic
Horse(s):        15.2 part Arabian mutt, no conformational oddities
When ridden:  Yesterday
How ridden:    45¹ English lesson in an arena
~Price:           £1095 = $2128
Pros:              Close contact, comfy, legs under me
Cons:             Too cushy, no twist, seat rather flat, esp for a dressage
                      saddle, didn't feel secure enough for endurance
Comments:     Note short time of ride. I was paying attention mostly to the
                      horse, whom I was riding for 1st time, and who was 3
                      weeks new to the ranch and not an easy ride.

BAREFOOT CHEYENNE
-------------------------
Configuration: Grasshopper w/ original seat, Western fenders, EZ Ride
                     stirrups, fiberglass pommel & cantle, mohair Montana
                     cincha girth; breast collar +/- crupper on trail
rides
Age/Mileage:   ~1 year old. ~100-150 miles
Pad:               My Equipedic
Horse(s):        Many different Arabians, inc 'my' 24 yo sl swayback mare
When ridden:  For the past year, 2-4x/week
How ridden:    American River 50; 1/2 flat ranch, 1/2 hilly trails
~Price:           $649 (+ $50 for Grasshopper)
Pros:              cushy ike a sofa, fits every horse I ever tried it on, I
                     can sit my mare's sewing machine trot, which I could
                     barely do in a treed saddle; it has a bareback feel
Cons:             Too cushy, no twist, seat rather flat, almost came out of
                     it on a large, bouncy Arab; fenders still stiff; not
                     enough D rings--can't get Stowaway pack to sit right
                    (haven't tried Lucy's config yet, though); girth
straps
                     stand too far off the saddle--makes girthing uneven
Comments:     This is my main saddle. I never found a horse this saddle
                     doesn't fit. I got it b/c it seemed to be the
Universal
                     Saddle, as I ride mainly other people's endurance
                     horses.

FREEFORM
-------------
Configuration: Not sure what model, Classic or SB I think; English
leathers;
                     EZ Rides w/ cages; bare seat; breast collar +
crupper;
                     fuzzy dressage girth; bought for 5'1" 110 lb person
Age/Mileage:   Several years old, probably has 1,000-2,000 miles
Pad:               Older Equipedic
Horse(s):        11 yo Arabian mare w/ thinner build
When ridden:  3 mos ago x 2
How ridden:    2 10-12 mi conditioning rides on steep hills
~Price:           $1425
Pros:              Comfortable, secure, good twist; good close contact,
                     lots of D rings
Cons:             Not as deep and secure and close contact as Bob Marshall
Comments:     Not sure if this saddle is as Universal as Barefoot. This
                     saddle (well, it's horse and rider) won Desert Gold x
2
                     days and won + BC'd the 20 MT 100 a few weeks ago,
                     plus won and/or BC'd many other rides. Many of the
top
                     riders in the (AERC) West Region swear by the FF.

BOB MARSHALL
------------------
Configuration: BMSS endurance; ~16 1/2" bought for 5'9" 150# person riding
                     endurance; Eng type stirrup leathers w/ leather tube
                     coverings; EZ Rides; breast collar - ? crupper;
                     ?? girth*
Age/Mileage:  New; probably <50 mi
Pad:               Skito
Horse(s):        6 yo Arab gelding
When ridden:  Over a year and a half ago
How ridden:    12 mi conditioning ride on steep hills
~Price:           $925
Pros:              Deep, secure seat; very close contact, lots of D rings
Cons:             Sore muscles after ride, figured I'd have to get used to
                      it. Sore shins from buckles, even w/ 1/2 chaps &
                      leather tubes. Didn't fit short-backed horse.
Comments:     *Note that I rode in this saddle a long time ago, so I don't
                      remember some details. I -loved- this saddle despite
                     the aches and pains, which I figured I could work
out,
                     and wanted to get it instead of the BFC.
                     But it was almost twice the price fully loaded,
                     and isn't "universal." If I had my own endurance
horse,
                     I would compare the FF and the BM and choose.

After girth adjustments, I was able to mount all saddles from the ground
w/o
slippage.




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_____________________________________________
Beverley Kane, MD
Program Director, Medicine and Horses
Stanford School of Medicine
650-868-3379
http://familymed.stanford.edu/

See Stanford "Medicine & Horses" on NBC-TV
http://www.horsensei.com/nbcnews.html
_____________________________________________




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Replies
RE: [RC] [RC] Barefoot/Bob Marshall/Fhoenix/Freeform Comparison, Ranelle Rubin