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Aggression breeds aggression IMHO. From our

experience racing sled dogs a dog with a tight line

going forward does not have time to get into trouble.

No need to punish. Teach.

 

A horse going forward from his hindquarters has most

of his weight there pushing rather than pulling himself

along. This is sounder for the horse in the long run. And,

if the horse is on the hindquarters moving forward, it is unlikely

that they will kick.

 

I find a lot of trail riders stop when they are being passed

head on or from behind. Stopping just gets you into

trouble.

 

Stopping a sled dog team with 10 dogs on a head on

pass with another team of 10 dogs will almost certainly

wind up in a major tangle.

 

Teach forward all the time. The forward thinking horse

will be much less likely to get into trouble.  

 

Cheers.

Dolores Arste

www.zenhorsemanship.com

 

Got Music, Get paid

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Save gas, shop where you own the mall 

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-----Original Message-----
From: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Dawn Carrie
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 11:39 AM
To: Marlene Moss
Cc: Ridecamp
Subject: Re: [RC] [RC] agressive horse

Marlene,

I'm dealing with my second kicker right now.  My first was my mare, who I started on in the sport in 1999.  She was a defensive kicker...she thought horses coming up behind here were going to "get" her.  It only took a couple of well orchestrated sessions with friends (setting the mare up in situations where she would try to kick) for me to teach her that it was wrong...I would bring down the wrath of God on her...yell, smack her hard on the shoulder with a crop, kick her, etc.  She soon learned that there were worse things than other horses.  <G>  And I never had another problem with her after about 2 rides with these lessons.  She was solid as a rock, even with other horses running up on her rear.

 

My second kicker is going to be more problematic.  He didn't start out to be a kicker.  He is very strong, very stubborn, very competitive, and doesn't want other horses to pass him.  The last two rides with my husband, he has tried to kick my husband's horse when that horse started to come up alongside him (different horse each time; one is dominant over him, the other is not).  I again brought all the demons of hell down on him, but he couldn't care less.  As long as Ross's horse stays *behind* Sundance, he's fine.  It's just if he feels Ross's horse is starting to pass that he gets nasty.  I'm going to have to think about the psychology of this one.  I'm also open to suggestions!  The reason for this horse starting to kick is totally different than the reasons that Mackenzie (the mare) kicked, and the cure is going have to be different, I'm thinking.  I don't think just punishment is going to work...getting into a pissing match with this horse is the worst thing one can do.

 

Marlene, your treatment of your gelding will depend on *why* he's acting this way.  If you feel that he's doing it out of nervousness or fear of the other horses, then swift punishment for his actions will make him think twice...as in the case of my mare...she was quite ugly toward the other horses, but it was fear that made her do it...I taught her that it was unacceptable, that that there were worse consequences than letting strange horses approach her, and she quickly mellowed out.  But if it is true aggression, as in the case of my gelding, then another approch may be needed.

 

Dawn

 

On 12/24/07, Marlene Moss <Marlene@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hello,

I have a 4 year old arab mustang gelding that I've been riding roughly for a year.  We've started slow because he is basically lazy and his mustang mom kind of "quit" being interested in going out on the trail and I didn't want to push him and have him quit in the same way.  We did do one 25 miler this year and he did fantastic.  Camps well, is very steady after the initial excitement and seems to enjoy trail work.  Good thing because he flat out will not move in the arena.  All of his riding raining has been done on the trail and there are a lot of basics that we missed because of this. 

 

Like many green horses, he is nervous about horses behind him on the trail.  He wants to turn his head and look at whoever is behind him and has occasionally thrown a little buck, but I figured he'd just get used to others in time.  We do ride out with other horses fairly often.  But he is not getting used to it, instead seems to be getting worse and he is getting aggressive.  Now he is pinning his ears and I feel the potential for him to kick and he is starting to lunge toward other horses.

 

He grew up on big pastures with 3 to 6 other horses.  The boss mare has always protected him, so he's sort of been at the top of the pecking order.  Within the last year, I put a mare in the pasture that had a rocky start in life – she spent 6 years with no other horses and I got her because her second owners couldn't deal with her reaction of kicking when she was first introduced to horses.  I shuffled her around until she learned to deal pretty well, although she attaches herself primarily to mares and is initially aggressive toward geldings.  But they had space to figure things out and didn't have too many problems.  This is the only horse that would have ever really been aggressive toward this gelding and taught him some bad behavior, although we really don't have any ongoing problems in the group.

 

I don't really know why he is behaving like this, but either way, I need to get it stopped soon.  Should I just try to inundate him with horses around him, or focus on one or two horses at a time?  What kind of determent should I give him for bad behavior?  I know I really need to do some arena work and get him softer in his responses, but I've never seen a horse so flat out determined not to move in the arena.  He is incredibly strong and stubborn and I know I need to balance not allowing this behavior with not pushing him too hard so that he completely decides not to cooperate.  This horse is a phenomenal athlete and I believe once we work through this, he will be even better, but I'm just not sure how to work on it.  I think this horse has 100 mile potential and when it's just him and his buddy mare he is a dream to ride.  Although I'd hoped to get him on a 50 this year, I will take things as slowly as needed to make sure he's a long term horse.  Or maybe he just needs to do enough of ride to be too tired to worry about horses behind him?

 

I'm sure I missed some pertinent detail here, so please ask if there is info I can provide that will help with any ideas in dealing with this problem.  I really do not want to continually worry and fight with him when it comes to the safety of others on the trail.  I ride him with a bosal hackamore, which is the only thing he has liked and responded to.  He is very strong and knows it and it is exhausting to fight him when there are horses closer around him for long periods.  I have access to a good trainer for help if needed, and plenty of people to ride with which are somewhat able to put their horses where I need them.

 

Thanks!

Marlene

 

 

Marlene Moss

Saddle Fitting - www.KineticEquineAnalysis.com

Boarding/Training - www.LosPinos-CO.com

 

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