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Kim asked ? 

> I have to disagree with you on this for what it is worth.? I do think
there is enough of a difference between doing 25 miles and doing 50 miles.?
I am not talking about competition.? I am talking about just doing the miles
say as conditioning miles at home.

OK - I'll have to grant you that we just about never condition for 10 hours
or so. If we do, we're probably in the mountains in rough terrain, and we
don't get very far, but it's tough.
?
> I can take just about any one of my horses that has been sitting for a
while on a 25?mile conditioning ride.? In fact yesterday, I took my mare,
Fox, who has been off for over a year on a 25 mile ride.? 

At your level of experience, sure. Also depends on how much room the horse
has to self-exercise. We've got one who was injured early last year,
recuperated last year, didn't do much this year, and I don't think it would
be smart to take him 25 miles right now. Though I think we could, if we took
it slow.

> If I had planned a 50 mile training ride on the same terrain and in the
same conditions, I would have had to had a water and hay stop along the way.

Oh, absolutely, but we're usually not going that far in competition without
water. Heck, we can't go 20 feet without water right now, but that's another
story.

> In two weeks, I am taking one of my lesser conditioned horses to an LD
because I want to support the ride.? I know that I can safely take this
horse through the LD because of his level of experience.? I doubt very much
I can get this horse through the same 50 mile course.? 

OK, why not? Do you think the horse isn't in physical shape? Or just needs
more time? I agree with what you're doing. We've got a couple of new horses
coming up, and they'll be starting with LD.
?
> Would??you to explain to me why and how 25 miles is not that different
from 50 miles because I really don't understand.? I really see a difference
just with my training and conditioning rides.? 

Whether to take a given horse on an LD or a 50 is very much a personal
decision. It is more difficult, but I don't think by all that much - in
terms of the skill set needed by the rider.

Here's the way I see it - LD is more forgiving. My vet, who is one of the
better known vets in endurance, says that the first 25 sets them up, the 2nd
25 knocks them down. If the horse is young (more accurately, inexperienced),
or the rider is just starting out, or even if you just feel like doing a 25
that day, that's the right thing. Your horse may not want to eat or drink
well on an LD ride (you know all this - you'd just asked my POV), and for 25
miles, that's OK. Pacing isn't as important on an LD. Oddly enough, I've
seen that bite them on the harder rides and the 30's - lots of overtime
pulls.

I think a 50 starts to introduce the need to learn pacing, but it's nothing
close to the skill needed to pace through a longer distance or a multi-day.
While I wouldn't recommend this, it's quite possible to do the 1st 25 in 3
hours, the 2nd in 6. Not a good plan, but if you did that in a 75, there
wouldn't be a 3rd 25. Whether the horse will settle down and take care of
themselves, and whether the rider has enough sense to stop and offer water
and forage starts to come into play in a 50.

Sure, a 50 is harder, but if someone is moderately good at doing LD and
doesn't have a nutcase horse, they could probably do a 50. I think most
horses that can do a middle of the pack LD can do a slow 50. The ones in the
back might not be in shape, and the ones in the front could get into trouble
going too fast until they catch on.

> Again, I am not even talking about "competition".?? Just the
support?(water, food, elctrolytes,?legnth of rest stop) needed to do a 50
mile training ride is different from going out and riding 25 miles.?

Well, sure, but I'll go out and train 10-15 miles without any rider food or
water, and I won't do that if I'm out all day on a 5-6 hour training ride.

> Also, the time?I give my horses off to?recover from a 50 miles training
ride and 25 mile training ride is different.? ?

That makes sense - the further you go, the more time off.

> I do on occasion do 40-50 mile training rides getting ready for certain
rides like Tevis or other 100s so I am talking about practical application
not "theory" or what I would do if I did do 40+ mile rides?.? For me, there
is definitely a difference in going out for 25 miles and going out for 50
miles even with a horse that is 100 miles fit.

Let me clarify - what I'm saying is that I don't think the overall skill
level you find in the average 50 mile rider is tremendously better than the
people I see doing LD (with some exceptions on both ends - I got passed by a
100 mile horse who'd just finished the PanAm on an LD one day). I do think
it takes a lot more rider skill to do the longer distances.

I'm not saying that I would prepare for the two distances the same way, or
that it would be smart to take a new horse on longer distances. In fact,
partially due to listening to people here who insist on starting new horses
on 50's, we tried that, and it didn't work out too well. I know some people
who are disciplined enough to train properly at home to do that, but our
rule is now a year of LD just to make sure everything's working right, then
move up.

I have a question for you - do you just have 50 miles worth of trail? Or do
you end up doing a lot of loops? Doing longer distances in training is
something worth thinking about, as a one-day 100 is my next challenge. I've
done some 75's, and a good handful of 2+ day rides. I'd like to work up to a
100 next.


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