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Cindy said:

> That is completely NOT what I meant, David.? To me, it's like 5 K runners
wanting to get year-end national "marathon" awards for doing 5 Ks.? When I
did a 5 K, I did not run around saying I was a marathoner.? 

You're missing the point I was trying to make. The difference between a 5k
and a 10k is really about the same as the difference between a 25 and a 50.
It just isn't that big a deal. One is twice the length of the other. Lots of
runners do both. A marathon is about 8 times longer than a 5k. Eventually,
you get to the point where doubling the distance takes something from one
level to another, and 50 to 100 certainly meets that criteria. I think a 75
is twice as hard as a 50, but a 50 is only a little harder than a 25.

> I just watched a 60 mins TV show about the current generation
wanting/expecting trophies for just showing up at a game, etc.? THAT's what
I'm talking about.

I understand that's what your point is. You've made it repeatedly. I don't
agree. I'm saying that the difference between going 25 and 50 is so minimal
that it isn't worth drawing a distinction over, and I say this from
experience. And I'm far from the current generation, and most of the people
I know in their 20's work hard or slack off in about the same proportions as
we did, so I really don't agree with this "current generation" stuff,
either. People are people.

> When Tevis gives a buckle for completing a 25 miler, talk to me about it.? 
That's a straw man argument. Sort of like saying that when Tevis gives out a
buckle for a 5 day. Not going to happen. That event is unique.

> You have completely misconstrued my point.? 
I don't think I have. What I have done is come at your point from another
direction, shown that your argument is flawed, and you're not very happy
about it. See, I'm not an LD'er asking for credit when none is due. I'm an
experienced "real endurance" rider who's pointing out that this particular
emperor has no clothes because a 50 just isn't all that hard. It certainly
isn't a lot harder than a LD.

A part of my point that you don't seem to be getting is that I take title
changes seriously. I worked very hard for 7 years to earn the right to be
called Dr. LeBlanc if that's appropriate to the situation (though I prefer
David almost all the time). There's a title in my area of work called CISSP
that I think is nonsense because you study for a week, take a test, 90+%
pass, and now they all put CISSP on their business cards as if they're
really any smarter than a week ago. If you want to go up a level in
something, it ought to really mean something. I don't think the difference
between a 25 and a 50 is enough to count. You see, I think it is the 50
milers who want to take credit for doing something special when they're not
all that special.

> You think the old timers are so awful, but you can't even begin to see how
spoiled, whining, and "it's all about me" the other side sounds.? 

Well, actually I don't think that. I think you're quick to take offense, and
you're trying to make this an us vs. them argument. There's a number of
people who've been doing this for a long time who I like - and they don't
agree with me on everything. To name a few, Truman, Joe, Barbara, and Heidi
are all fine people. For brevity, I've left out a lot of other long-time
participants. There's others who don't post here that are some of my
favorite people to ride with. And I've been doing this 10 years now, so
while I'm not up to old timer status, I'm no longer a newbie.

> We're deteriorating to name calling and lies about each side, so it's
hopeless.? Just for the record, though no one here seems to care much about
the truth, I am not advocating banning 25 milers.? It's philosophical and
that seems too deep for some.? 

I'm not calling names. About the worst I said was "crabby", and I didn't
call any one specific person crabby, nor was I really thinking of you when I
wrote it. You took that one on yourself, and if the shoe fits, I believe you
can wear it.

I'm also not in the habit of lying, here or anywhere else. I do certainly
hope you don't mean to be calling me a liar. I don't know who construed you
as saying you supported banning LD rides, but it wasn't me, and I don't ever
recall your saying anything I'd interpret that way.

Things change. My area of work is in constant change. I started programming
in FORTRAN IV on punch cards. Most of the people I work with have never even
seen a punch card. Fighting change is like trying to hold back the ocean -
better to ride with it. This sport will continue to change and evolve - and
that's a good thing - shows that it is alive and growing.

I do agree with you that it useless for us to continue this. Stuff like
changing the title of the thread is just rude, and if you can't have a
polite discussion, then I'm not going to do what I've often criticized and
turn this list into a platform for personal attacks. If you would like to
reply personally and politely, then I'll continue this, but if you want to
have the last word on the list, you're welcome to it.




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