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RE: [RC] [RC] [RC] Are the LD's feeding 50's? - David LeBlancDiane Trefethen said: Second, some of (maybe all, I don't know) the LD results reported in EN include hold time. Nope, sorry. Not true up here. Maybe some RM somewhere would do this, but I haven't seen it. Without any personal experience, I would be willing to accept the claim that most LD riders are conservative riders. But the claim that the LD WINNERS take 1 1/2 hours longer to complete than the 50s do to reach their lunch stop? Nahh.... That's not what anyone has said. They said the 50 mile riders went about 15% faster. So if the 50 was won in 5 hours even, a typical LD the same day would be won in about 2:50. I also wouldn't tend to characterize LD riders as conservative, but they do have slower winning speeds on average than the 50 mile riders. That's part of the point - I can run up front on a 25, then go out the next week and ride the same ride at the same speeds in a 50 and end up middle of the pack. For example, in 2003 I came in 8th at Redwoods in 5:46, and the first place 25 mile rider that day had a ride time of 2:56. The winner of the 50 was exactly an hour in front of me. that's too much of a stretch especially since when I had a Top Ten horse, there were often several 25ers at the lunch stop before me. I believe it was you earlier admonishing Truman about statistics. Don't make the even more fundamental mistake of comparing a statistically significant sample of hundreds of rides to anecdotal evidence. Go pull down a few hundred ride results and do the numbers. I did, and I have a significant amount of training in statistics. Though one thing that could account for a difference is that the last ride you completed was in 1995. The data I worked from was all from the late 90's and on, since the LD results aren't really there for the time when you were riding. As Truman documented, the character of the sport has changed since then. It used to be that most people only did 50(+)'s, now most people either do LD's and 50's or just LDs. So, look in EN at the LD results. Just about every EN has at least one instance of a finishing 25 mile LD rider with a reported time more than 5:45. Every one of those is a mistake, either because the time includes holds or because it doesn't and the rider should have been disqualified and not received mileage. And if the hold time on a 25 is 1/2 hr, then any finish over 5:30 is an error. You'll find finish times on 50's up in the 11 hour range, too. Some RM's will mis-report the times as all being 5:30, or sometimes 6:00. This was easy to filter for - that's obviously bad data. And as to Home on the Range, IF the reported times for that LD include a 20 minute hold, the top 6 LD riders all rode faster than the 7th place 50. If the hold was 30 minutes and included, they all rode faster than the 4th place 50. No, that ride was put on by Gail Williams, who knows what she's doing. She puts on a lot of rides, and has for years. She's been on the AERC BOD for a while. Paul was mistaken - it was just the top 7, not the top 10. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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