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RE: [RC] Arabian Definitions - heidiwhich John would have us believe does not happen in this country.Heidi - keep it civil - Steph put me on Squeek (Sukaro HCC) - a very good Hyannis horse. Which is why some of your comments have startled me... How many current endurance breeding operations are there in the US today of the scale of the HCC? My point was not that there are no US endurance breeders! my point was we are doing it, for the most part, in a different way and I have been pointing to some of the differences. we are not doing it today like Hyannis did it. Hyannis bred 425 horses. I won't venture to name the top ten breeders in the US, but will list five in the NW. The VanGilders have bred 285. Lois Russell bred 147. Canyonside has bred 102. Belesemo has bred 89. We are pushing 80 here at Sagehill. Of those five programs, all but Lois Russell are still actively breeding. So while we may not equal the numbers of Hyannis, none of us are exactly breeding on a small scale. And I think all five of us are doing it with more research than Hyannis, quite frankly--Hyannis got lucky with a golden cross, and produced many of their best horses in their early years. It's not that I don't believe US breaders have brought forth good horses -- that's not my point at all - and it does absolutely no good to preach to me (as I'm not a horse guy eh?) - my point - rather - take a broader view - there are 160+ horses gathered in Aachen for a race on monday. 5 of them came from the US and are (I have to guess b/c I'm not a horse guy!) of the best breading; the best conformation; these are choice endurance horses. and the other 155 horses over there are likely just as well bred! I have no doubt that there are many at the WEG that are well-bred--from all over the world. The Aussies and the French in particular are doing well with their programs. But one of the differences is that US riders frequently have NO clue about the breeding of the horses they are riding, whereas riders of other countries have learned this lesson well. and most of the endurance riders i know pay particular attention to choosing their mounts with as much astute attention to their future success as possible. Even middle of the pack and tail enders look for the best they can afford that meet their criteria. and more power to us all. They certainly spend a lot of time in the selection process--but very little of it, in my experience, checking out the breeding of their mounts from the perspective of endurance. That is slowly improving--but it is hampered by the fairy-tale stories and the hype that is out there from various breeders who would fancy themselves endurance breeders without doing the homework. again, i'm not a horse guy - these name breeze right on through without sticking with me - And sadly, John, you are right up there with the majority of riders in this country. Some have progressed a bit further and have latched onto a few names--but few have really studied the horses in the pedigrees or the relationships of those horses. Would you list for me, the top 10 breeders of endurance mounts in the US today - in your opinion? I'd like to get a handle on the scope of the issue and on the size of these top US breeding operations. Well, as I said above, I won't venture to name them across the US--but I listed 5 from the NW, since that is where both you and I are from. The numbers I listed were of foals bred. I can't speak to the numbers of current breeding stock other than my own--we stand five mature stallions currently, with seven more young colts coming on. Of those, two have good endurance records and the rest are endurance-related. Two of the three mature ones without records should be on the circuit themselves in the next few years. One has an injury that will prevent him competing, but given his breeding (both parents had excellent records as well) we expect him to produce well. (Remember that most of the "great" sires such as Abu Farwa, *Witez II, and Kosciusco never did endurance.) We have stood two other successful endurance stallions in past years, and both have sired very successful competitors. We have 22 mares here of breeding age, but don't try to raise foals from all of them every year. We have 10 fillies coming on to go into the broodband. The other three farms I mentioned in the NW that are still breeding are of a similar size or a bit larger. Unfortunately, those of us breeding endurance horses don't have the backing of a funded national team to ride our horses, or the financial backing of a state stud, so we have to depend on the promotion of our horses by the riders who happen to buy them. Still, just for fun, I did some stats on our foundation stallion. He sired 35 foals, 17 of which made it into endurance homes of some sort. Those 17 have garnered among them over 21,000 miles, many wins, many BCs, numerous 100-milers, a 2nd at Tevis, and a win at Levi Ride and Tie. Of his 9 grandchildren to hit the circuit so far, there's over 6000 AERC miles, 50-mile wins, 100-mile wins, and BCs. Three generations have Top Tenned the same 100-mile ride (obviously not the same year). I think I mentioned previously that horses from our program have gone over 40,000 miles. Maybe if I have time this winter I'll try to run some stats for some of the other programs--I'll bet Lois Russell's is particularly interesting, as off the top of my head, I know that RT Muffin, BRR Aurber Lights, and Arleen Neale's Mr. Pinto come from her program, among others. I would almost wager that many of the current breeders actually have a higher percentage of foals that have excelled in the sport than Hyannis did. I ran some numbers on that many years ago, but haven't looked at that sort of a comparison in recent years. Heidi =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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