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[RC] - Budler,Cindy - AfroxHi Lucinda As I explained earlier- it is not the trim- it is the living conditions, booting, and the amount of rides that cause the expense! Herewith my first post RE: [RC] Feed in South Africa- and now barefoot - Budler,Cindy - Afrox ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Hi Maryanne/All Our beet pulp now is imported from UK I think- the Dodsen and Horrell kwik-beet. A bit expensive- but might get cheaper with more use - horse people are notoriously slow to try new feed- especially expensive feed- and with the rand/pound exchange rate we can get VERY expensive!! But you are right in that the 24/7 is probably the key here- interesting to see that mine- being rather cold here right now(down to -1 degrees C at night) graze at night and then sleep most of the day sprawled out in the sun (15 degrees)-I think that really makes them alot more sane! I am NOT doing the barefoot thing permanently - altho we now allow barefoot competing in SA - if one belongs to the Barefoot Club. I DO NOT want to start the barefoot debate again- but a few people have asked... I honestly cannot "afford" barefoot here in SA- Afford as in I battle to support my horses and my reason for owning them is to do endurance riding - not winning as at this age all I want to do is a nice 16km/h 80km or 14km/h 120 km ride at least once a month- . I cannot afford the "so-called" barefoot trimmers, or the imported variety of boots - whether they be easyboots or turfkings or whatever.. and my horses feet do NOT last with all the mileage required to compete well at that level on the ground where I train. I also cannot afford to go buy some gigantic piece of ground somewhere in the sticks so my horses can walk 20km a day over varied terrain to compete barefoot safely and fairly to the horse. To be honest if I had to do that I would have to give up horses completely cos I couldn't work to afford them!! But occassionally- especailly when doing limited mileage due to not being able to compete, I like to let the horses manage barefoot as long as possible to give me a good look at how they move and wear their feet- and be able to shoe accordingly. Needless to say I believe 90% of horses here in SA should and definately could go barefoot cos of the limited amount of work they do. Regards, Cindy Budler IP Marketing Germiston 011 876 1179 0824641809 Regards, Cindy Budler IP Marketing Germiston 011 876 1179 0824641809 -----Original Message----- From: ridecamp-d-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ridecamp-d-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Ridecamp Digest Sent: 05 July 2006 21:35 PM To: ridecamp-d@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [RC-Digest] Vol: 03.3944 ============================================================ ==== ==== Ridecamp Vol: 03.3944 ==== ==== For more information: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp ==== ==== Post message: ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ==== Subscribe: ridecamp-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ==== Unsubscribe: ridecamp-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ==== List owner: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ==== ============================================================ From: Bruce Weary DC <bweary@xxxxxxxxxxxx> - Subject: [RC] Carbohydrates in Beet Pulp From: "Karen Sullivan" <greymare56@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> - Subject: Re: [RC] Carbohydrates in Beet Pulp From: Cowgirgoof@xxxxxxx - Subject: [RC] need ple to stay Helena MT From: cheval <cheval@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> - Subject: [RC] Crupper attachment for english saddle From: Kristi Schaaf <iluvdez@xxxxxxxxx> - Subject: [RC] Neoprene crupper for Angie From: "Ranelle Rubin" <raneller@xxxxxxx> - Subject: [RC] Tevis place to stay before and after.. From: Aaron Turnage <ajandcrysta@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> - Subject: [RC] Carbohydrates During a Ride From: rides2far@xxxxxxxx - Subject: Re: [RC] Crupper attachment for english saddle From: Truman Prevatt <tprevatt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> - Subject: Re: [RC] Carbohydrates During a Ride From: "Mike Sherrell" <mike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> - Subject: [RC] June horsenews From: "Sisu West Ranch" <ranch@xxxxxxxxxxx> - Subject: Re: [RC] Carbohydrates During a Ride From: rides2far@xxxxxxxx - Subject: Re: [RC] Neoprene crupper for Angie From: Bruce Weary DC <bweary@xxxxxxxxxxxx> - Subject: [RC] Carbohydrates During a Ride From: "Beverley H. Kane, MD" <sensei@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> - Subject: [RC] Test Message #1 - Please Ignore From: "Tracey Lomax" <bandipops@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> - Subject: RE: [RC] Feed in South Africa- and now barefoot From: "Dyane Smith" <sunibey@xxxxxxxxxxx> - Subject: Re: [RC] Hauling horses cross-country in August? From: Lucinda Carpe <kharakterc@xxxxxxxxx> - Subject: RE: [RC] Feed in South Africa- and now barefoot From: Bruce Weary DC <bweary@xxxxxxxxxxxx> - Subject: [RC] [Fwd: Carbohydrates During a ride] ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Bruce Weary DC <bweary@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [RC] Carbohydrates in Beet Pulp Thank you for responding, Kat. There is much to be learned in discussions like these, and I am constantly reminded how difficult it is to include enough info to give the broader picture, rather than leave a narrow message that can be taken out of context and misunderstood or discarded. Where to start? It looks like we agree that beet pulp generally has (or is intended to have) low sugar content, despite a rare batch that didn't. Since that's the case, and since I've been discussing the importance of keeping glucose levels up specifically, and beep pulp has almost no glycemic effect, we can probably agree that there are better feeds for elevating glucose. We also agree that sugars are indeed broken down in the foregut. We agree, I think, that all sugars and starches are carbohydrates, but not all carbohydrates are sugars or starches. We agree that structural carbohydrates are fermented in the hind gut to produce volatile fatty acids (an energy source for aerobic work), and that about 150-200 pounds of hay is on board at any given time, much of which is made of structural carbohydrates. How'm I doin' so far? Let me make a few points clear. I'm not against using beet pulp per se. I often feed Complete Advantage at a ride, among other things, but it also has some grain and molasses in it (sugar and starch). I think that phrase "among other things" is useful here. Hay or fiber is useful in keeping the horse hydrated, his gut moving, as an electrolyte reservoir, and as a source of VFA's. It even has some non-structural carbs in it. But for the ongoing energy needs of the exercising endurance horse, a constant supply of glucose (coming either from the horse's reserves or his feed) is necessary to A) Keep him moving down the trail, and B) Tell the nervous system that it's okay to keep all body systems running (gut movement, sweating, brisk muscle contraction, heart rate and strength of contraction, depth of respiration, saliva production, water retention/clearance, hunger and thirst mechanisms). The shutting down of one or more of these mechanisms are, by definition, signs of a horse that is increasingly fatigued. We have all seen them in our horses or other horses at a ride. In fact, a distressed horse is often given fluids that contain glucose to revive him, because of it's ability to turn those systems back on. I like the analogy of an office building with all the lights turned on. If there is a sudden power shortage, only crucial hallway lights and the lights in the CEO's office might be left on. The same can be true in the tired, glycogen depleted horse. He begins to shut down less vital systems to preserve enough glucose to at least keep the nervous system running. You're right that he can't eat enough non-structural carbs during a ride to entirely run on the mere calories that they provide, but if he eats carbs, he will elevate his blood glucose levels, and his system will know that it's okay to keep all the lights on in the building, rather than sense a shortage and begin economizing on systems functioning. Arguably, and I'd be interested in your perspective here, when the horse is becoming exhausted, he still has ample reserves of structural carbs, VFA's, and fiber on board, as well as his tissue fat reserves. Yet he is spiraling down. So, "among other things" it may help the horse to eat some beet pulp, but he can get the same basic ingredients from hay, and he will do even better if he gets some sugar/starch throughout the ride, because it's more effective at keeping the "systems turned on" and at keeping glucose levels up. For some reason, some people seem to think that elevating blood glucose is bad. It's not. In the exercising horse it's a very good thing. It shouldn't be confused with high glucose levels in a diabetic person. Completely different scenario. And that's part of what makes this confusing to people as they try to understand all this, all the while wanting to protect the horses they love, as well as do the things (and feed the feeds) that will help that horse do his best without risking him. And that's why I type. Dr Q Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Karen Sullivan" <greymare56@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [RC] Carbohydrates in Beet Pulp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Weary DC" <bweary@xxxxxxxxxxxx> It looks like we agree that beet pulp generally has (or is intended to have) low sugar content, despite a rare batch that didn't. Except for in our area, the feed stores are now bringing in beet pulp with molasses added back in! Need I say it's more expensive than the plain beet pulp that had already become ridiculously expensive? When I first started buying beet pulp some 10 years ago, the feed stores considered it "cattle or hog feed"; it was about $5.50 a bag. After the horse folks discovered it; and there was more of a upscale market (plus Purina made a big deal of adding it to Complete Advantage)....we are now paying upwards of $13 for a bag of the shreds, and sometimes even more if it has the added molasses back in.... Plus now have to drive out of county to get it without the molasses. grumble, grumble Karen Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Cowgirgoof@xxxxxxx Subject: [RC] need ple to stay Helena MT Hi, I'm traveling through/working in Helena this weekend and need a place to put my horse for Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights. I have a horse show to photograph at the show grounds, so I may stay out there in my trailer. If anyone has a paddock or pasture, I'd appreciate it. thanks, Becky Siler ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ From: cheval <cheval@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [RC] Crupper attachment for english saddle HI: Does anyone know where I can purchase a crupper adapter for an english saddle? I bought one several years ago but can't find the vendor again. It is a small biothane piece that slips into the gullet channel on the bottom of an english saddle and has a D-ring so that a crupper can be attached easily. Thanks! Bianca Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Kristi Schaaf <iluvdez@xxxxxxxxx> Subject: [RC] Neoprene crupper for Angie Angie - I'm late reading your post and don't know if you've already found one, but Cathy at www.american-flex.com sells neoprene cruppers that look a lot like the original OF ones. (http://www.american-flex.com/hardware%20&%20rigging.htm). And, she does sell JUST the neoprene loop part for $20! Kristi iluvdez at yahoo dot com Life's a journey, so enjoy the ride (and try not to fall off) Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Ranelle Rubin" <raneller@xxxxxxx> Subject: [RC] Tevis place to stay before and after.. Hi Ridecampers, I still have plenty of room for you and your horse in a self contained situation if you need a place to stay 15 min from end of the Tevis trail. Flat grassy area, easy pull into, vegie garden, nice spot..rest after or come before to preview trail. Contact me privately for details.. Happy Trails, Ranelle Rubin Coaching and Consulting Services The Coaching Center ranelle@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx raneller@xxxxxxx 916-663-4140 home office 916-718-2427 cellular 916-848-3662 fax Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Aaron Turnage <ajandcrysta@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [RC] Carbohydrates During a Ride I find these type of discussions very interesting, and I enjoy learning from others. I've read TI's Equine Nutrition book as well as The Fit Racehorse II. I understand the concept of glucose and it's importance during an event. My horse gets 1/2 grain (Nutrena XTN) and about 1/2 beet pulp in a sloppy mash during a ride. Where I start to get confused is how do you keep glucose levels elevated during an event? From what I've read, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the one thing you really want to avoid is a horse that is now dangerously low on glucose, since glucose = metabolic energy. If you feed high sugar/starch feeds, then the insulin levels will rise in order to help process that glucose into the system. When those sugars are no longer available, the higher insulin levels may then cause the horse to "come down" faster than a horse that was at a fairly low blood sugar to start. Is that correct? So with that in mind, how much and how often should you be feeding sugar/starch carbs during a ride? I'm assuming this would vary depending on the type of carbs fed, i.e. corn vs carrots vs oats vs whatever. Would supplementing with carrots and then a small amount of grain (approx 1 lb) be adequate? My horse has been doing well but does sometimes seem to hit a slump. The last time was on our first 100 at about 45 miles. It was one of the longer (and hottest) stretches and he just slowed down quite a bit. Lots of food, fresh grass, and I'm sure some rest, at the vet check seemed to perk him right back up and he was good to go. How could I possibly prevent this in the future? Carry some grain with me? We did stop for grass breaks but maybe he needed something "more".... Also, what is the value of bran? At Tevis they provide a lot of bran mashes, something I don't normally feed, how does bran and the added fat factor in? Should I start feeding some bran now so he's used to it? Should I carry grain and plan on adding it to the provided mash? Lots of questions and I'm very interested to hear the responses. Thank you Bruce and Kat. Please keep the discussion going. ~ Crysta & Sinatra, Tevis Bound ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ From: rides2far@xxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [RC] Crupper attachment for english saddle Don't remember where I bought the one we have...but it must have been an endurance vender because it's biothane. Until we found that one we used to just take a really big nail and slide it in there sideways to hook to. Angie On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 09:10:27 -0700 cheval <cheval@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes: HI: Does anyone know where I can purchase a crupper adapter for an english saddle? I bought one several years ago but can't find the vendor again. It is a small biothane piece that slips into the gullet channel on the bottom of an english saddle and has a D-ring so that a crupper can be attached easily. Thanks! Bianca Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Truman Prevatt <tprevatt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [RC] Carbohydrates During a Ride Aaron Turnage wrote: I find these type of discussions very interesting, and I enjoy learning from others. I've read TI's Equine Nutrition book as well as The Fit Racehorse II. I understand the concept of glucose and it's importance during an event. My horse gets 1/2 grain (Nutrena XTN) and about 1/2 beet pulp in a sloppy mash during a ride. Where I start to get confused is how do you keep glucose levels elevated during an event? From what I've read, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the one thing you really want to avoid is a horse that is now dangerously low on glucose, since glucose = metabolic energy. If you feed high sugar/starch feeds, then the insulin levels will rise in order to help process that glucose into the system. When those sugars are no longer available, the higher insulin levels may then cause the horse to "come down" faster than a horse that was at a fairly low blood sugar to start. Is that correct? KER did some studies to show this cycle from ingestion of carbos to "hypoglycemic" state to be about two horse. The entire cycle was found to be about 4 hours. The good news is most feeds today balanced with different sources. Just a question. XTN has a significant amount of beet pulp in the feed and makes a nice mesh. Why are you adding more? -- "The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. The opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth." Niels Bohr -- Nobel Laureate, Physics Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Mike Sherrell" <mike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [RC] June horsenews June horsenews In June I've been riding east of I-5 between Stockton and Lodi and further east. Around the end of May and into early June, the cherries are coming in. Traveller munched the clover that grows between the trees while I sampled the darkest of the cherries. Afterwards I experienced no tremors or dizziness from neurotoxic pesticides, so a couple of weeks later in another cherry orchard I ate my fill, mostly Queen Annes now, while Traveller hurriedly tore off as many mouthsful of clover as he could. I know horses are anathema to walnut growers, but trying to complete a loop we kind of got trapped in a walnut grove (which in my defense hadn't been scraped of its winter weeds yet). This is the most beautiful place in California. Standing in the shade and watching Traveller grazing, in my mind I saw the walnut forest extending across the valley floor for leagues in all directions, to the Sierra, to Mt. Diablo and Mt. Shasta, Traveller and me in the center of it - how would Traveller feel? All six flymasks from last year were reuseable - never previously has it been more than one or two. I'm a real old buckaroo now, I guess. At the club playday T and I took blues in barrels and cones, but in another event I fell off into the sand when he shied right while I was leaning way left to grab a flag out of a barrel. I did a pretty slick back somersault to my feet and ran him down to finish the event, though. Two year old Andalusa refuses to give me her left hind. She falls on me, feint-kicks (and gets slapped), bites at me. I thought maybe it hurt to put her weight on her right hind, but now I've seen her standing on three while she twists around and gnaws at some itch on her raised left leg, another time kicking at an annoyance on her belly with the left hind. I can't get her trimmed unless I overcome this. Neighbor Steve brought over his yearling and we put her in the arena with Sepherade the two-year old filly, the idea being to socialize his baby with strange horses. Sepherade touched noses and then went to vacuuming up Traveller and Andaluza's left-overs (the two being in a neighboring pasture). Steve's horse, a quarter horse-Arab cross, intermittently jumped, bucked, and whinnied, then finally turned, raced down the length of the arena and jumped at the fence, catching her legs on the top pipe, flipped and crashed on the other side. She picked herself up and disappeared down the road. We caught up to her at the fence with her own herd at Steve's house, her legs a bit skinned up. To see a few pictures from June, go to http://www.grizzlyanalytical.com/Horsepix.htm and in the index at the bottom select the link to June 2006: Lodi-Stockton area and points east. Regards, Mike Sherrell Grizzly Analytical (USA) 707 887 2919/fax 707 887 9834 www.grizzlyanalytical.com Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Sisu West Ranch" <ranch@xxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [RC] Carbohydrates During a Ride "....you feed high sugar/starch feeds, then the insulin levels will rise = in order to help process that glucose into the ..." Disclaimer: I am not Susan G or even a self-proclaimed world-renowned = expert on horse feed. It is my understanding that when sugars are absorbed during exercise, = they can be immediately used without processing using insulin. My = brittle, juvenile diabetic mother's body did not produce insulin on = demand to regulate blood sugar levels. If she ate sugar, her blood = sugar would go high etc. She injected herself with a standard amount of = insulin twice a day. If she did an unusual amount of exercise, the = insulin would help her body process the sugar for storage, and her blood = sugar would drop with disastrous results. If on the other hand she ate = apples while she gardened, she was fine. My reasoning is that sugar/starch consumed by endurance horses during a = ride is used directly without any bouncing around of blood sugar caused = by insulin production. Somewhere I think I read that the spike in blood = sugar in a horse happens on the order of a half hour (as opposed to a = few minutes, or many hours) after a high sugar meal is consumed. If = this is the case, the sugar would hit the blood stream after the vet = hold, just when the horse needs it to help burn the fat it is using to = supplement its energy production. Ed Ed & Wendy Hauser 2994 Mittower Road Victor, MT 59875 (406) 642-9640 ranch(at)sisuwest(dot)us ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ From: rides2far@xxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [RC] Neoprene crupper for Angie To all who are concerned about my mental health. I've found an original OF crupper. I've even found another crupper that needs the lonesome, dismembered neoprene loop that was mailed back to me. Hopefully, we can sort of employ the organ donor concept to make the death of my crupper be less meaningless by saving the life of another. Now I have to find a place to hide the "new" leather crupper I didn't want, since just the sight of that stiff leather loop attatched below the OF logo raises my bloodpressure and brings on another fit of rage. Angie On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 09:20:59 -0700 (PDT) Kristi Schaaf <iluvdez@xxxxxxxxx> writes: Angie - I'm late reading your post and don't know if you've already found one, but Cathy at www.american-flex.com sells neoprene cruppers that look a lot like the original OF ones. (http://www.american-flex.com/hardware%20&%20rigging.htm). And, she does sell JUST the neoprene loop part for $20! Kristi iluvdez at yahoo dot com Life's a journey, so enjoy the ride (and try not to fall off) Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Bruce Weary DC <bweary@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [RC] Carbohydrates During a Ride Hi Crysta-- All good questions, and probably the same questions on a lot of people's minds. You keep the glucose levels up within a good range for work by frequent feedings of carbs--grain, carrots, sweet feeds, molasses, glycogen powders, whatever. The insulin levels rise, as they're supposed to, in response to the increase in the blood sugar levels. The blood sugar levels in a working horse, must be kept up, and not allowed to drop to levels that cause work intolerance. The blood sugar levels drop as a result of two main factors: 1) The horse has used his glucose by doing work, and 2) He isn't replenishing his glucose enough by eating carbs. The reason that many horses have "highs and lows" can be because they use up a lot of their glucose (or other necessities like electrolytes and water) and aren't given the chance to replenish them often enough. When glucose is the limiting factor, the liver will sometimes kick in and release some glycogen and the horse seems to sort of come out of it for a while.Your idea of a 1 lb baggie of grain every hour or two is an excellent way to start, along with some carrots which have some sugar, water and fiber in them. I really like the compressed energy bars sold by the Platinum Performance people, too. They have significant carbs, protein and electrolytes in them and a horse can eat one in a matter of seconds. Feeding the grain by hand can take a little time, but you will have more horse for having done it. At a vet check, I lay out a smorgasbord, but I try to get them to eat a good meal of wet grain, and then top off the tank with wet alfalfa or whatever hay they will eat. You could do the same with grain first and then beet pulp. Or just mix them, but heavy on the grain. And keep this up throughout the ride. Those riders who do this, including myself, KNOW that they have more horse all the way to the finish line, with better recoveries, and better eating and drinking skills. Tom Ivers explained to me that the horse's appetite isn't suppressed by eating grain. On the contrary, since their glucose levels are up, he feels good, and his appetite is maintained. Horses that don't feel good are less likely to eat, as we all know. "It's like Chinese food," he said."They just want to keep eating." And IMO, there is nothing that warms the cockles of the heart of an endurance rider more, than to see his or her horse eat voraciously throughout a ride, eh? Dr Q, world renowned eater Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Beverley H. Kane, MD" <sensei@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [RC] Test Message #1 - Please Ignore Test of possible blockage of e- from earthlink and horsensei domains. _____________________________________ Beverley Kane, MD Horsensei Equine-Assisted Learning & Therapy Woodside, CA http://www.horsensei.com Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Tracey Lomax" <bandipops@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: RE: [RC] Feed in South Africa- and now barefoot Cindy wrote: Our beet pulp now is imported from UK I think- the Dodsen and Horrell kwik-beet. A bit expensive- but might get cheaper with more use Ya, sure, that's what they said about petrol.....but moving on : it's expensive to buy BUT I've found that feeding it has meant that my hay and concentrate bill is reduced so I'm now a convert. I honestly cannot "afford" barefoot here in SA- Roderick (who is, incidentally, Cindy's farrier) has become a bit of a barefoot fan of late and he's managed to convince me to let him try it on my four Thoroughbreds (all of the older Ridecampers who remember me saying I'd never try it are now fully entitled to a whiplash moment) and I must say I'm quite impressed so far. Of course, I don't do the distances that Cindy does, but my horses do work over varied terrain, from soft sand, to tar, to stony ground, and so far, so good. The first horse we tried it on was Diceman who had the crappiest LTLH feet you've ever seen, and he's been bare now for about four months, and I've just started jumping him again. We've now pulled Toc's backs, Harry's fronts (he was in a half set) and Barney's full set (he's off work for a month or so as he's tweaked something in his butt and, to be honest, I'm too bone idle to ride in the cold). I'll let you know how they hold up. If they do, he'll be eventing bare, which might be fun : only TB in the world who events barefoot and eating nothing but hay and beet pulp! They don't come cheaper to keep than that! He also goes in nothing but a snaffle and cavesson, and bootless, so my tack bill's also low :) Cindy and Celeste : Roderick's busy designing a new rubber shoe which he wants to try on endurance horses who usually go barefoot, just for endurance rides. Anyone wanna play guinea pig for him? Tracey Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Dyane Smith" <sunibey@xxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [RC] Hauling horses cross-country in August? Everyone's situation is different, however, two of the factors that I considered when I last had my horses hauled a long distance during the summer months were: 1. size and comfort of the accommodations--room to move around, eat and drink en route, quality of the suspension (air shocks, etc). 2. reputation of the hauler and insurance carried Dyane Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Lucinda Carpe <kharakterc@xxxxxxxxx> Subject: RE: [RC] Feed in South Africa- and now barefoot forgive me for missing most of this discussion... How is it that one could NOT afford to go barefoot. I use a barefoot farrier...paying a tidge more for the trim is still cheaper then shoes. Lucinda Tracey Lomax <bandipops@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Cindy wrote: Our beet pulp now is imported from UK I think- the Dodsen and Horrell kwik-beet. A bit expensive- but might get cheaper with more use Ya, sure, that's what they said about petrol.....but moving on : it's expensive to buy BUT I've found that feeding it has meant that my hay and concentrate bill is reduced so I'm now a convert. I honestly cannot "afford" barefoot here in SA- Roderick (who is, incidentally, Cindy's farrier) has become a bit of a barefoot fan of late and he's managed to convince me to let him try it on my four Thoroughbreds (all of the older Ridecampers who remember me saying I'd never try it are now fully entitled to a whiplash moment) and I must say I'm quite impressed so far. Of course, I don't do the distances that Cindy does, but my horses do work over varied terrain, from soft sand, to tar, to stony ground, and so far, so good. The first horse we tried it on was Diceman who had the crappiest LTLH feet you've ever seen, and he's been bare now for about four months, and I've just started jumping him again. We've now pulled Toc's backs, Harry's fronts (he was in a half set) and Barney's full set (he's off work for a month or so as he's tweaked something in his butt and, to be honest, I'm too bone idle to ride in the cold). I'll let you know how they hold up. If they do, he'll be eventing bare, which might be fun : only TB in the world who events barefoot and eating nothing but hay and beet pulp! They don't come cheaper to keep than that! He also goes in nothing but a snaffle and cavesson, and bootless, so my tack bill's also low :) Cindy and Celeste : Roderick's busy designing a new rubber shoe which he wants to try on endurance horses who usually go barefoot, just for endurance rides. Anyone wanna play guinea pig for him? Tracey Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Bruce Weary DC <bweary@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [RC] [Fwd: Carbohydrates During a ride] -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Carbohydrates During a ride Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 12:29:13 -0700 From: Bruce Weary DC <bweary@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To: ranch@xxxxxxxxxxx Hi Ed-- How's things in your neck of the woods? You brought up some interesting ideas about sugar metabolism, and I thought I'd comment. It works kinda like this: The horse (or person) eats a carb meal, and digests it primarily in the stomach. It passes through the small intestine where it is absorbed as glucose into the bloodstream. As the glucose circulates in the blood through the pancreas, insulin is released into the blood to make the body's cells permeable to the glucose so that it can get inside the cell where it is burned. I don't know of a mechanism that allows glucose into the cell without the use of insulin. If complex carbs are used, there shouldn't be a "spike," but rather a sloping increase in blood sugar over 20-30 minutes. When the glucose levels get too low, the pancreas also knows this, and releases another hormone, glucagon, which tells the liver to release some of it's glycogen stores to bring the levels back up. This is essentially the "check and balance" system of the pancreas designed to control glucose levels.This is probably the mechanism involved in the highs and lows horses (and people) experience during a ride. In your mother's case, she would eat carbs that increased her blood sugar levels, but if she didn't produce insulin, her blood sugar would just keep circulating, "trapped" in the bloodstream, and unable to "escape" into the cells. This is the problem with diabetics--they eat, but don't get the benefit of the energy of the food they eat, so they feel fatigued, and are still hungry even though there's plenty of glucose circulating in their blood. Since they're always hungry, obesity often goes hand in hand with diabetes. The resulting effect of the insulin shot has a lot to do with when they eat and their activity level. If it's done properly, they get energy from their food, and can maintain activity. If not, you're right, the insulin will cause storage and weight gain. I can't explain why your mother did okay with eating apples, other than maybe the fact that she might have produced some low levels of insulin, and the sugar in the apples is digested slowly, so the two together helped maintain a decent glucose level. In feeding the horse throughout the ride, not just at vet checks, we can avoid the typical dropping of the blood glucose levels, and keep the horse strong and functioning better all day. It reminds me of the guy on Ed Sullivan who used to spin those plates on those tall skinny sticks. He'd have seven or eight of them going at a time, and he'd just tweak each stick every now and then to keep them spinning. If he didn't pay attention, the plates would eventually slow down and wobble badly, and eventually crash to the floor. We just have to "keep the horse's plates spinning." And it's easy. Just feed him frequently throughout the ride, and make sure some of that feed is carbs. Dr Q =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- _____________________________________________________________________ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by Verizon Business Internet Managed Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.mci.com This e-mail message and all attachments contain the CONFIDENTIAL AND PROPRIETARY information of The Afrox Group and may contain LEGALLY PRIVILEGED information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, or use of this e-mail, its attachments or any information contained therein is unauthorised and prohibited. 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