RE: [RC] LD/BC - heidiHeidi-- I think I finally see where we have been miscommunicating regarding the LD/BC procedure. Once the horses involved have all crossed the finish line safely and met their post-ride criteria without complication, and proper placings have been assigned to the properly prepared horses who were able to go fast enough to be considered for BC without undue stress, the vet assessment procedure for that particular sub-group of horses is fine. I think we can agree on that. Yep, so far so good. Let's back up a step. Forget about the finish line and everything that comes after that. Let's go out on the trail where there may be a novice rider and unprepared horse who, together, are taking the trail at a pace well beyond their ability to do so safely. Maybe the horse is fired up, maybe the rider is simply allowing himself to be swept along with the fast pace of the lead horses, or maybe he heard about a BC award that is given, but you have to be a front runner to be considered for it. Either way, the horse is going too fast and at risk, and the rider is clueless due to his inexperience. A properly executed BC evaluation at the finish line can't protect that horse or undo whatever negative metabolic event or lameness that might ensue. In other words, the potential problem is out on the 25-35 miles of trail, not at the vet inspection, as far as the health and safety of the unprepared horse is concerned.The criticism of the LD/BC I think boils down to this question, and I would appreciate hearing your response to it specifically-- " Since ride time (speed) is a factor in BC, how do we prevent the newbie rider from inadvertantly going too fast in pursuit of a chance at BC that they by definition cannot safely do because of their unpreparedness without changing the speed component of the BC evaluation?" Bruce, let me answer a question with a question. How can we prevent a newbie from doing all of those things and having problems on the trail anyway? Once in awhile it happens. And furthermore, it happens whether rides offer LD BCs or not. To try to put blame on the BC award for the occasional over-enthusiastic newbie is the same sort of logic as not wanting to kill the rooster for fear that will make the sun not come up in the morning. Let's back up one more step. Sometime in the mid-to-late 80s, AERC formed the LD concept. Prior to that time, we were ALREADY running "short" rides in PNER in conjunction with sanctioned AERC rides. And we awarded the equivalent of AERC BC on those "short" rides, even though it didn't count for AERC. Our RMs would either save up unused AERC BC forms from past years, or would photocopy the forms for us to fill out when we judged BC for the "short" rides. Not once in nearly a quarter of a century have I EVER heard a rider say, "I've got to go fast, so I can get BC." I've heard them say that about first place--but NOT about BC. And if they are unprepared and try to do it for the win, they don't get the win because their horses don't pulse down before the horses of the other riders who came across the line right behind them. AERC has done a good job of addressing that problem with the pulse-to-finish criterion for LDs. Nor has there been any indication that riders ride faster in general to try to achieve the award. It is impossible to prove a negative. But experience has shown not only in our region but in several others that the scenario you describe just doesn't happen. So let's move forward again. Let's look at the very real POSITIVE benefits of offering an AERC LD BC. What we DO see fairly often is novice riders who are totally unaware of their placing and who Top Ten "by accident." (Heck, I'm not a novice by a long stretch, but my junior and I "accidentally" Top Tenned at her first LD ride--we weren't riding for Top Ten and we weren't going all that fast, so I sure wasn't keeping track of where other riders were--and my jaw dropped about a foot when the timer told us to go weigh after we pulsed down! Being "experienced" all I knew was that we were riding a pace that sure wouldn't have Top Tenned the 50!)) By standing for BC and getting the feedback that occurs by doing so (provided you have vets who will GIVE feedback--we are fortunate that most here in the NW will do so), they get a handle on whether or not they have pushed their horse to go the speed they did. It is a good barometer of whether they can say, "Yeah, I did my homework and my horse did great," or "Golly, there is some stuff here I need to work on!" Additionally, they get extra practice in presenting their horses, as well as an additional thorough going-over beyond just a completion exam--which is a good thing for those horses that went just a little bit faster than the others. Bottom line, Bruce--the "negatives" here are imaginary. LD rides all over the country are giving AERC LD BC awards and are not seeing any of the doom and gloom that has been predicted. It is real. It is happening. And the negatives have not occurred. But the positives are tangible and real. They are demonstrated at ride after ride. BC by its very nature is an award that is almost impossible to "push" for--and even moreso on the LD rides than on endurance rides, since the time factor is less. If you push, there will be SOMEBODY who didn't who will beat you for it. Heidi =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. 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