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Re: [RC] Completions at WEC - Joe LongI knew I was "asksing for it" when I posted my comments -- fair 'nuff, I'll try to clarify as best I can. On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 22:18:15 GMT, Ridecamp Guest <guest-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Joe, So if I am understanding you correctly it is OK at this level of FEI riding to have a 73% DNF as long as veterinary controls are in place. I don't think there is such a thing as an "OK" level of pulls, I am suggesting it is understandable that there may be a high level of pulls at events with intense competition for placing and riders highly motivated to place well. So because of the high stakes of competition more riders will ride over the edge and it is up to veterinary control (not the riders themselves) to catch horses before there is serious damage or harm is done to the horses. No, no. I would hope that it would not be an adversarial relationship, that the veterinary control would help riders make good decisions ... but just in case the don't, I would hope that good veterinary control would pull horses before they were harmed. So I guess my next question is what is considered "harm" to horses at this level of competition. In AERC, we are able to look at a horse's lifetime record after a pull to determine if we "harmed" our horse if ride ride over the edge at a single competition. At this level of competition is it just the completion or placing at the single event that is considered successful or do we look at how many races they are able to compete in after an Olympic level competition? Do we look at how many horses are hooked up to IVs in the treatment tent at a ride? Do we look at the lay up time a horse needs until it's next race after a lameness pull? What exactly is considered causing "harm" to the horses and how do we determine that fact at this high level of competition? "Harm" is subjective and difficult to define clearly. To me, a horse that went too fast and "ran out of gas" was not harmed if he is back to his old self in a few days. A horse that goes lame is obviously harmed, but the "harm" I'm talking about here would be a career-ending lameness, something that does permanent damage. After all, lameness pulls happen to the slowest and most cautious riders. If I had the choice of Kahlil's 18-year career and 11,000+ miles, or a 3-year career with 1,000 miles and a WEC Gold, well, it's no choice -- I'd take the long career. Nevertheless, winning a WEC Gold is a laudable goal, one I would love to have a crack at someday, and the two are NOT necessarily incompatible. Is it just a crap shoot or luck that the ones that finish finish and the ones that are pulled are pulled? To some degree, yes. A good rider improves his chances of finishing (as does a good horse), but every rider that starts any 100 mile ride, anywhere, faces the risk of not finishing that event. The "rock with your name on it" is only one of the things that can snakebite even the most cautious and experienced team. The more aggresively you pace the event, the greater your chances of not finishing ... that just comes with the territory. Maggie Price once chastised me for riding aggressively at the Race of Champions before we'd earned a buckle. She told me that her style is to ride a ride like that conservatively the first year, to get the buckle, then to "race for it" the following year. Well, that wasn't my style, even on my first time at a premier ride I'd "go for the gold," even knowing it reduced my odds of finishing. I know there is added pressure at these races BUT no one is forcing any rider to ride beyond their horse's ability...I cannot believe that most of the 120 pulled horses because the riders were riding on the edge. In a race like this ... and it was a race ... it would not surprise me. This certainly does not sound like the circumstances with the US Team members from what I have read. I know this occurs at most high levels of competition but most of those high level competitions the human is pushing himself over the edge not an animal. This is one of the grave challenges of our sport, that we are responsible not only for our own welfare (where we feel the pain directly), but for the welfare of our partner. Have you ever watched the finish of a Marathon? For many years I was a volunteer worker at the finish of the Rocket City Marathon, and it is quite something to see the number of runners who come to the finish in serious pain, vomiting, collapsing across the finish line -- and the number who end up in the aid tents being treated. Thank God we take better care of our horses than we do of ourselves! I know that this probably happens in other high level equestrian events but most of those events do not have the combination of intensity/speed combined with distance. Perhaps endurance horses at this level are more prone to "harm" because of this combination. Regardless, I still am not convinced that a 73% attrition rate is OK at this level with such experienced horse/rider teams. I agree it's higher than I want to see, and I do think such a flat, fast course contributes both to the high attrition, and danger of serious injury or death to the horses. Also, when you mention the 20% completion rate at the ROC were there any unusual weather or terrain conditions that may have been responsible for the high pull rate? The conditions at the WEC sounded ideal from the reports on endurance.net and it sounded like the only technical part of the trail was the sand which I assume ALL participants were aware of long before race day. Well, yes. That was the trail at Brian Head, Utah. Very high, very steep. The trail proved to be more difficult than anyone anticipated, plus it was unusually hot (so they tell me, I hadn't noticed heat being a problem but then I was living in Alabama at the time). AIR there were 88 starters, 16 finishers. It was funny, Kahlil had just recovered from a minor lameness injury and wasn't quite back to top fitness. I told people before the ride "He's not fit enough to get First Place, but I think we can finish around the middle of the Top Ten." Then we came in fifth place, right where I predicted. This is an interesting discussion and I welcome any dialog on this. Agreed. -- Joe Long jlong@xxxxxxxx http://www.rnbw.com =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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