Endurance.Net Ridecamp Archives

Thought I would throw this out to a wider audience.  I've gotten some
interest as well as useful feedback about current rules precluding this
on the PNER list.

Comments and discussion welcome!

Thanks,
.Terri

-----Original Message-----
From: PNER@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:PNER@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of T.
Rashid
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 9:18 AM
To: PNER@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [PNER] An idea - competition related

So I am fairly new at this game, but I've been considering for the last
few months how you bring along a second, "young" horse when you might
have limited time for competing.

What if ride managers offered an "afternoon" LD in addition to their
other rides?  I was thinking it might start at 3pm - which would be
early enough for most folks to still finish in daylight, but late enough
that the front to mid-front pack 50 miler's could have completed their
50 miler on their regular "endurance" horse, and then be able to head
out for an afternoon LD on their young horse.  And it would let people
with two LD horses easily compete in both.

If the LD loops had vet checks in camp, then your vets would already be
around anyway - especially if you were running a 75 and/or 100 miler.
By the afternoon the pace is slowing somewhat for the vets as morning
riders complete, so I would think they would have enough time (though
maybe not enough energy?) to vet the afternoon LDs.

The primary purpose of this would primarily be to allow one rider to
bring and ride two different horses.

Possible secondary purposes would be:

1.      Allow a rider that is considering moving up to a 75 miler to
enter the 50 miler, and then ride another horse on the 25 miler.  That
lets the *rider* see what it's like to be in the saddle for 75 miles.
2.      Allow a rider to ride the same horse on both rides.  They could
decide at 50 miles if they and the horse were ready to do another 25
miles.  It still counts as separate competitions, but let's them
consider doing 75 miles after doing 50 - without having to sign up for a
75 and then pull at 50 because they are two tired.  If they can do this,
then obviously they can do a 75 miler.  HOWEVER - if this pace would be
too fast for a 75 miler (I don't know as I haven't done 75s) then you
could specifically DISALLOW the same rider/horse on both.
3.      Similarly to the above - let a morning LD horse also sign up for
the afternoon LD.  The horse and rider would get a longer break in
between the two LDs than they would if they were riding a 50 miler - so
it might be a "step up" kind of thing.
4.      Allow folks that have to work on Friday the ability to drive in
on Saturday morning and compete in the afternoon.  (Assuming a few rigs
on the road and moving in camp wouldn't cause a problem with the ride
itself.  Depends on how the ride trail is routed.  Might have to have
some restrictions on when they can arrive - eg, not right at 5am or 6am
if those are ride start times.)

Any of the last 3 could be disallowed if people think it would be a bad
idea for some reason.

The other main horse issue I see is who is responsible for watching the
horse that remains in camp.  This is especially important for the horse
that has just completed a ride.  I think the signup form should require
"designating" a person who would be in camp at that time and be
responsible for the care and well-being of the horse.  Could be the
rider's crew, or possibly a friend's crew if they agree and will be
available at that time.  I would think that the ride release would
already cover the fact that ride management is NOT responsible for
horses in camp - but a lawyer would know best if there are any
additional liability issues.

It seems to me that there are 3 main benefits:

1.      It would bring in a little more money to the ride (though
obviously not as much as the morning LD), without as much cost to ride
management as a completely separate ride.  (The course is already
marked, water is already out, vets are already in camp, volunteers for
various positions are already there.)  You might offer less nice "top
ten" awards since there may not be many riders in that LD.
2.      It gives riders another opportunity to bring along a young/new
horse, without having to "give up" an opportunity to ride their main
horse in an endurance ride.
3.      It gets more riders riding for more hours in a single day.  This
may lead to more people being interested in / and willing to consider
longer riders (75 to 100 miles) since they will have the confidence that
they can manage it.

Anyway, I know *I* would do it if I had two horses to ride.  Would
anyone else?

OK - flame suit on.  Fire away!  ;>

.Terri

Redmond, WA

===================================================================

CLARIFICATIONS:
A couple of people on the PNER list pointed out that this would violate
an existing rule (# 14) "No equine and/or rider may enter more than one
ride held concurrently at any AERC sanctioned event" - (Thanks Dot for
the reference!)

Apparently that rule was in response to people who wanted to try to do
the same 50 miler, on two different horses, by completing both horses
within 12 hours. (So 6 hours for each.)  This was to accelerate point
acquisition.

My response was:
------------------------------
OK - I can see how that would cause an uproar.  But that would require
much faster speeds.

And since I am suggesting an LD as the second ride, it would obviously
not help in a "points" race for endurance points.  And I think by
starting at 3pm, you would still plenty of time to do a 50 at a
"reasonable" pace, and then plenty of time to do a 25 at a "reasonable"
pace.  (At least here in the PNW - we get lots of daytime hours during
the summer.)

Sanctioning for more days requires more vet time / volunteer time / etc.
I spoke to a vet today and he said that he wouldn't really mind vetting
a 2nd LD in the afternoon along with the 75s and 100s, provided that
there were enough vets to handle treatments as needed.  He even
commented that he thought it might be more interesting to pass the time
since things do slow down quite a bit then.

Just because there is a rule that precludes it - prompted because of the
scenario you mentioned, doesn't mean that the rules could not be amended
to allow this possibility and still prevent other scenerios.  For
example the second ride could be limited to LD.

.Terri



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