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RE: [RC] [RC] Trimming for Riding/About Vets-Feet - terry banister

Karen,

For the benefit of those who may not understand what you are talking about, I have a few questions:

- Are you a vet, a hoof-care specialist, farrier or? What are your credentials besides having lived with a Strasser student?

      "Those mustang hooves don't mean a thing.  They are dead, dehydrated and not typical of  a live mustang hoof.  The only weight bearing x-rays that have been done of LIVE feral horses show the coffin bones to be elevated 5-7 degrees"

- Are you saying that the coffin bone moves inside the hoof after the horse is dead?

               "The Strasser/Jackson methods do not talk about the correct boney column alignment"

-You lumped Strasser and Jackson together, but only Strasser insists on ground-parrallel coffin bones, 45-degree toe angle and 30-degree hairline-angle "Formula" for trimming hooves. Martha Olivo gave up her Strasser certification because she did not feel it was good, and developed her own trim method, which is more in line with the wild horse trim. 

Jackson also disagrees with Strasser's strict "formula" approach. In his book "Horse Owners Guide to Natural Hoof Care" he questions the fact that although the base of the coffin bone (P3) appears to align parallel to the ground in many photos, more research is needed to determine whether it is true for all horses. (p. 259) "To answer this question, our research will require that we introduce horses into the wild and evaluate the hooves as they transform over time. X-ray and 3-dimensional images will be needed, and the hooves will have to be measured and evaluated at very close intervals - possibly once a week. . . "From the standpoint of natural hoofcare, this information is important because we simply do not understand the mechanisms that dirve P3 into its elevated natural position."

So Karen, it appears you have a disagreement mainly with the Strasser method and I am happy you have found your own method that works for you and your horses.

Terry

"May the Horse be with you"
>From: Karen Standefer <kstandefer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>To: ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: RE: [RC]    Trimming for Riding/About Vets-Feet
>Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 11:51:52 -0800
>
> >>Take a look at the mustang hooves on www.tribeequine.com
><http://www.tribeequine.com>  << (it's www.tribeequus.com  BTW)
>
>
>Those mustang hooves don't mean a thing.  They are dead, dehydrated
>and not typical of a live mustang hoof.  The only weight bearing
>x-rays that have been done of LIVE feral horses show the coffin
>bones to be elevated 5-7 degrees (studies done by Bowker, Page,
>Ovnicek, et al).  Because of the way the hoof/leg work together,
>looking at a cadaver (even a moist one) is not at all indicative of
>the way the coffin bone  should be oriented in a live horse.  Nearly
>all horses with ground parallel coffin bones have a subluxated back
>coffin joint axis (which can be seen externally by the broken back
>hoof/pastern axis).  The Strasser/Jackson methods do not talk about
>the correct boney column alignment with is so very important to the
>long term health of any horse, but even more so with an endurance
>horse that is doing many miles on a consistent basis.
>
>The vet's comments to Dyane about getting the rear coffin bones
>elevated on Dyan's horse is a good thing.  Especially in the rear,
>if the DDFT is put under excessive strain from the coffin bone being
>too low, it will affect the whole back of the horse (Joyce Harmon,
>Gayle Trotter, Judith Shoemaker), and also makes the horse
>susceptible to hock arthritis.
>
>Ground parallel coffin bones can be the cause for ringbone,
>degeneration of the articular cartilage between the joints,
>occification of the impar ligament, pedal osteitis and a myriad of
>other maladies.
>
>Many of you on the list may remember a couple of years ago that I
>was a staunch supporter of the ground parallel coffin bone.  Well,
>my horses were almost ruined due to me trying to ensure that their
>coffin bones stayed ground parallel.  Luckily, they have basically
>good feet and those feet fought my efforts every step of the way.  
>In the process of trying to figure out what is right and what is
>wrong, I discovered that there is absolutely NO research work or
>case studies to support the ground parallel coffin bone theories  
>(or the 30 degree hairline theories).  And, in fact there is a huge
>amount of research work and common sense anectodal evidence to
>support correctly aligned coffin joints (which will not give you a
>ground parallel coffin bone in 90 percent of the horse populaation).
>
>
> >>I just haven't found one yet, who knew as much as my hoof care
>specialist (another term for a certain kind of very educated
>barefoot trimmer). And I have tried.>>
>
>The "Hoof Care Specialist" if schooled ala Strasser or Olivo, have
>learned some very incorrect information about hoof biomechanics (and
>a bunch of other stuff as well).  I would ask for the case studies
>and research to prove the theories that they use.  Don't go blindly
>following (been there, done that), it's your horse that will pay for
>it.  Oh, and BTW, they get no where close to 800 hours of hands on
>or even class time.  Olivo specialists get 10 days in class/hands
>on, Strasser specialists get 9 months with most of that time being
>home study (classes are in Canada with a couple of 2-3 day
>practicums in the US).  At the finals, in Canada, they get 5 days of
>hands on wtih Dr. Strasser.   My fiance was Strasser certified (and
>lived with me while he was in school), so I know about this first
>hand.
>
>Karen
>
>
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Replies
RE: [RC] Trimming for Riding/About Vets-Feet, Karen Standefer