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> I think culls from other markets suit distance riders, not distance
> riding.
Lif, that's a good way to put it... <g>

A bit of history about Arabian breeding in this country (and in
general)....  Up until the 50s or 60s or so, the mainstream breeders were
HORSEMEN and bred horses according to the breed standard, with riding and
useability in mind.  The "pretty" end of that became the show string, and
with that sort of a breeding base, the "culls" did indeed make good riding
horses.  But then the emphasis in the show ring began to change, and the
change has become so extreme that what is being actively bred now for the
show market is diametrically different from what is suitable for riding. 
Since this change was gradual, for a time, the culls continued to be those
that exhibited the sorts of traits one would want in a riding horse.  But
as generations have progressed, and the changes have become more extreme,
it is rare indeed to find a cull from a show barn that is really suitable
for this sport.

One still does--occasionally--find a good "throwback" in the backyard
"show wannabe" programs just by the luck of the draw--but again those are
also becoming less common, as more and more crosses are made away from
classic using Arabians.

The racing breeding has not gone quite as far down the primrose path--and
although the race breeders do not select for the metabolic and disposition
factors for which the Arabian was noted, they DO at least (or at least
SOME of them do) maintain a degree of athleticism.  (Although I'm appalled
by the conformation on some of the "race-bred" Arabs as well--I see some
LOOOONG cannons there that make it no wonder why there is so much
disparity in times among racing Arabs--the wannabe Arab race breeders who
think that "tall" is a priority at any cost need to go to the "class" TB
barns and measure cannon bones!  Those big jokers that run well STILL have
a 2:1 forearm-to-cannon ratio, and STILL have three-circle bodies, and
biomechanically efficient conformation--and THAT is what makes them
fast--not their height!)

Fortunately (and as Chris pointed out) the various Sport Horse disciplines
(of which endurance IS one) are becoming increasingly popular, and more
breeders are getting sick of what is happening to the breed, hence there
ARE more folks once again trying to breed horses suitable for riding.  The
other sport horse disciplines are already beginning to help out the
breeders of quality horses, but beware--they WILL buy the same sorts of
horses that will excel in this sport, which will keep the price of good
ones out of the cellar.

Jody and Truman--you are both making the mistake of oversimplifying the
price thing.  Certainly a horse is "worth" whatever someone will write a
check for.  The problem with the "expensive" ones is that what one is
often buying is "famous names" in the pedigree rather than quality.  And
the money spent on promotion in glossy ads does not pass on as useful
traits in the offspring.  Additionally, the "famous names" tend to be
horses that are actually actively selected AWAY from useful traits--hence
many of the "high dollar" horses HAVE been huge disappointments under
saddle.  By the same token, the breeders producing actual quality often do
not have huge ad budgets or big sales pitches--and hence don't command the
price they SHOULD get!  The key is rider/buyer education--a bad horse is
expensive, no matter if you got him for free, and a good horse is cheap,
even if you paid the price he deserves.  If you know what you are shopping
for, and you find one that doesn't cost as much--more power to you!  But
that doesn't change the fact that YOU have to educate yourself about what
makes a good horse before you can decide if it is a bargain or not.

And Jody--I don't doubt you a bit that you are raising better horses than
many out there.  I became a breeder in self defense myself--back in the
70s it was already becoming painfully clear that the trend in breeding was
away from anything that I cared to ride.  So I started breeding the sorts
of horses that did well in the sport, just to ensure myself a supply of
future riding horses.  And it turned out that I like the breeding end of
it.  It was also reassuring to discover other breeders with similar
goals--and to become a part of a cooperative breeder circle determined to
keep such horses available.

As somebody pointed out, one can't simply put the genetics on the shelf
when they are not popular and then dust them back off a few decades later
when one realizes that one "should have" bred that sort of horse.  One HAS
to have the foresight (gained only from a perspective of breeding history)
to keep the good ones going.  And THAT is why one breeds--not for profit,
not to be an "endurance breeder"--but because it is the right thing to do,
and the only thing that will keep the breed going.  It IS a labor of love.
If it was profitable, the wealthy investors would not have run to horses
as a tax shelter in which to dump a bunch of money to be able to write it
off.  Unfortunately, that made the IRS change the tax laws, which made it
tougher for the rank-and-file breeder--but if one is basically broke, it
is still possible to write off most of one's expenses, as it is clear that
one is TRYING to make an income from it, and is not sheltering one's
riches.  But it DOES still take a day job to keep the hay man paid!  The
beauty of breeding is that if one does a good job of it, it does at least
return SOME of what one puts into it--unlike endurance riding, or boats,
or several other big holes into which one can put dollars.  (Heck, people
still raise kids, because it is rewarding and is "the right thing to
do"--and THAT is the biggest dollar pit of all!  <g>)  But the more we can
get for our horses, the better job we can do of ensuring that those horses
ARE available a decade or two down the road.  There ARE finite limits to
how much money one can sink into anything one loves.

The bottom line here again is honesty and education.  If you raise your
own, it is not cheap.  It is also not a guarantee, although it has some
definite plusses.  If one REALLY counts all the costs, even in an
operation such as mine (intentionally located where land is cheap, good
hay is reasonably cheap, mostly use my own stallions, doing my own vet
work by and large, etc.) one has at least $3000-$4000 in one by the time
one is ready to really go out and ride.  If one pays stud fees, lives in
expensive areas, etc. the cost is substantially higher.  So if you are
honest with yourself, if you raise them, you have just paid for them on an
inconspicuous time-payment plan, as one poster put it.  If, on the other
hand, you want to buy them, you have to be well enough educated in what it
really TAKES to make a good horse to know what you are getting.  Part of
the package is genetics--and no matter how much good nutrition, good care,
running out, etc. has been lavished on them, you can't make silk purses
out of sows' ears.  That said, the best genetics can also be degraded by a
poor environment.  So as a buyer, you are only getting a "bargain" if you
got a good genetic package that also had a good environment.  Paying
$10,000 for one does not ensure that it has those qualities--you as a
buyer need to determine that.  And you can only do that if YOU know what
constitutes good genetics, good disposition, good conformation, and
reasonable care.

Ed made an interesting comment about artificially regulated breeding--and
that that is not a tolerable way to go.  I'd like to point out one
additional problem that has occurred in countries that have done precisely
that--and that is that their gene pool has become extremely limited.  As
much genetic material as we have lost in this country due to the fads and
trends, the fact that there have still been pockets of breeders "doing
their own thing" has ensured that we STILL have far and away the largest
Arabian gene pool in the world, right here in this country.  The fads of
importing from countries with very small gene pools and using those sires
as top crosses has pinched our gene pool somewhat--but it is still the
healthiest around, precisely BECAUSE there is no "authority" making us all
go in the same direction.  That has been the key in preservation programs
as well--lots of small breeders with their own slice of the vision, not
necessarily duplicating what everyone else does, hence preserving
different genes of the same group.

Heidi



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