Endurance.Net Ridecamp Archives

> I like the Witez II line too, my first 50 was
> completed on a Witez II great-grandson who looked just
> like him.  Potato Richardson's foundation mare, Eden's
> Cailana was Witez II.  He has all kinds of get from
> her doing great on the Tevis.
Um, yes, Edens Cailana goes back to *Witez II on her sire line.  And she
has two very distant other Polish lines (both very old breeding, like
*Witez II) through *Werra (who also came in the Patton importation) and
*Zewa, who came much earlier, imported by Henry Babson, out of the great
mare *Kostrzewa (who you may remember from earlier posts about Wendell
Robie's foundation mare Canastilla, as she was her dam as well).  That
said, Edens Cailana was predominantly CMK, once again, and her pedigree is
replete with such horses as Alyf (twice, once through his good son Lutaf),
*Raseyn, *Zarife, Alla Amarward, Antez, and Farana's full sister Treyf,
just to name a few that leap out at me.  And significantly, she has a
large contribution of Davenport blood, her tail female line being the
Davenport mare *Werdi, who comes down through several generations of
Davenport breeding via the great Oriental daughter Taliti.

Although Edens Cailana does not meet the CMK requirements herself (having
a Polish sire line) she is well over the 75% requirement, and her daughter
Fille de Cailana (by Bezatal) DOES qualify as CMK.  Fille de Cailana has
quite an outstanding Tevis record.

> What about the Bask line, isn't that Kuhailan, or is
> it Ofir?  My horse Felex was a Bask grandson by
> Gdansk, and pure Polish, and he was the most
> level-headed big boned goer I ever had.
*Bask is a mixed bag.  Although he is primarily of older breeding, he is
the beginning of the "change" to the emphasis on show breeding.  I'd say
you are lucky if you had a Gdansk son that was built as you
describe--Gdansk himself was a rather flimsy horse that went like a Singer
sewing machine.  *Bask generally produced far better offspring when bred
to CMK mares, which was something I observed long before I ever heard of
CMK, for what it's worth.  I had the privilege of going on some extended
travels with a good friend who was looking to breed to a *Bask son after
*Bask's death, and we saw several dozen sons (as well as innumerable
daughters) in several western states.  I was young and not very
knowledgeable about pedigrees yet, but already pretty wise in what sort of
conformation would hold up to hard riding (having been raised on a working
cattle ranch in rough country and mentored by an old cavalry-trained
instructor), and as I looked back on the ones that seemed like they'd "do"
it gradually dawned on me that ALL of the ones that I'd even consider (we
didn't find any that we used, BTW) were out of solid old mares with solid
old American pedigrees.  It was then that I realized that what I wanted
for riding came from the old American breeding (in which I would include
the much earlier Polish imports, BTW), and that it didn't pay to top-cross
it away.

I personally view *Bask as rather a non-entity in endurance pedigrees.  He
is not a horse that I would seek out for the sport, but I wouldn't throw a
horse away (as a riding prospect) because of a *Bask line or two if there
are other strong points in his breeding and he seems suited to the sport.

In your case, in the era when *Bask and Gdansk were breeding, many of what
I would consider their better get were indeed gelded and sold cheap--hence
were available for endurance.  The ones suited to the show ring were far
less suited for what we do, but those were the ones that tended to breed
on.  So the culling of the "good" ones combined with the athleticism of
the earlier horses such as *Witez II gave an impression that "Polish
breeding was the way to go" despite the fact that the CMK horses kept
right on going and dominating, while the subsequent generations of Polish
breeding became increasingly less suitable for riding.  So now we are at a
point where the modern Polish breeding abounds, and the CMK horses are a
tiny minority of what is being bred in this country, and the CMK breeding
still holds its own and then some, because with subsequent generations,
the "cropouts" of horses with solid old traits in the modern Polish
programs become fewer.

As a rider, I never knock a good horse, regardless of his ancestry.  But
as a breeder, I stick with the lines that have stayed consistent.  So I
steer clear of *Bask as a breeder, even though with the open CMK
definition, I COULD still maintain a CMK herd and allow a *Bask line in.
In fact, I DO have crosses to older Polish horses in about half of my
herd--which I don't mind at all since they are the same sorts of athletes
as the old CMK horses.  I happen to draw the line as a breeder at the WWII
Patton imports, although as someone else stated, one COULD draw the line
at "pre-*Bask" in terms of athleticism.

The short version--as a rider, what you see is what you get.  As a
breeder, you have to deal with all the skeletons in the closet, and it
isn't worth the gamble no matter how good the horse, unless the pedigree
is consistent in the qualities you want.

Heidi



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The very essence of our sport is doing the trail as quickly as practicable,
while keeping one's horse fit to continue.  Taking the clock out of the
equation makes it another sport altogether.  The challenge is how to keep
the sport what it is while honing our skills (both as riders and as those
in control roles) in detecting where "the edge" is for each horse so that
we don't cross it. 
~  Heidi Smith
ridecamp.net information: http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/

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