Wow. Such ladylike behavior. I think Howard can defend himself nicely, thank you, and in addition, Heidi doesn't yap:). What, do you need a referee here? Elaine your point is well taken - but perhaps you can't reason with everyone. Iris, it's nice to be proud of being an "LDer", and that's fine, but you speak like a snotty child, Since you took this public, you get it back that way. ALl I know is that if my daughters spoke to me the way you just spoke...their riding privileges would be the first thing to go - but not their barn duties:). Anyway, back to the couch - take it private "ladies".