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RE: [RC] They all only go on "with qualifications" - Bob MorrisI beg to differ with you Kat but as per our By-laws there are two types of rides detailed for endurance but, not as you describe them. <<<Unlike Maryben, I don't think it is such a bad idea to recognize that there are two competitions going on at an endurance ride. There is the ride, and there is the race.>>>> The only two are those describes in the By-laws section 4.01. A "Ride" shall consist of one of the following events in which the equine shall be under the control of veterinarians experienced with equines or endurance riding. All riders who successfully complete the Ride must receive a completion award. There shall be no minimum time limit for completion. (a) "Endurance Ride." An Endurance Ride is defined as an athletic event in which the same equine and rider cover a specified course of not less than 50 miles within a maximum time limit proportional to 12 hours per 50 miles and conforms to the Rules in effect at the time of the Ride. The Endurance Ride must be open to all breeds of equines at least 60 months of age as determined under the AERC Rules. The winner of the Ride is the equine and rider who successfully complete the course in the fastest time. An award for the equine judged to be in best condition must be available, though may not be awarded if no equine meets minimum criteria. (b) "Limited Distance Ride." A Limited Distance Ride" is defined as an event in which the same equine and rider cover a specified course of between 25 and 35 miles within a maximum time limit proportional to 6 hours per 25 miles and conforms to the Rules in effect at the time of the Ride. The Limited Distance Ride must be held in conjunction with an Endurance Ride and must be open to all breeds of equines at least 48 months of age as determined under the AERC Rules. Bob Bob Morris Morris Endurance Enterprises Boise, ID -----Original Message----- From: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of k s swigart Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 10:28 PM To: Heidi Smith Cc: Ride Camp Subject: [RC] They all only go on "with qualifications" Heidi Smith wrote in speaking of the horse that died of Exhausted horse syndrome after being given a "provisional" pass at the vet check: Well, that would be an interesting notion--if not for the facts that 1) it was cool out, 2) there was water on the trail, 3) she didn't trot--she galloped, and used a whip to get the horse to gallop, And Merryben writes about allowing horses that continue with qualifications for "completion only": I hate this one. If the horse cannot go on without qualifications, it does not need to go on. The horse has no ego and does not care about completion, or winning or anything else........mb In reading these two different posts, I am struck by the fact that all vet check "passes" are with the "qualification" of "as long as you don't ride your horse beyond its capabilities." Vets are not there to disqualify any horse that couldn't gallop the rest of the course if that it what its idiot rider chose to do with the horse after it was around the first bend out of sight. If this were the case, vets should just disqualify all the horses at the start because the rider MIGHT ride the horse beyond its capabilities. If the vet believes that a thinking rider can get the horse through the ride by riding it within its capabilities (even if the extent of its capabilities at that particular time is only to walk), then that horse is, by definition, "fit to continue" and should theoretically be allowed to go on. However, there are plenty of vets that evaluate the fitness (and here I am talking about mental fitness as much as physical fitness) of riders at the same time that they evaluate the fitness of horses even though there isn't anything in the rules that technicallly allows a vet to do this. So what happens now (despite the fact that technically it is against the rules) is that horses that are marginally compromised are allowed to continue if the vet thinks the rider understands the situation and will ride accordingly, but they are pulled if the vet thinks the rider is an idiot. Unlike Maryben, I don't think it is such a bad idea to recognize that there are two competitions going on at an endurance ride. There is the ride, and there is the race. And that it is entirely possible for a horse to be "fit to continue" in the ride without being "fit to continue" in the race. Since vets are allowed to disqualify horses based on their evaluation of the horse's fitness, I see no reasons that vets should not be allowed to disqualify horses from the race without disqualifying them from the ride. I know of one vet who does this (or at least claims to do this:)) by giving riders "provisional" permission to continue in the ride just so long as they disqualify themselves from the race. And tells the rider that if s/he then, chooses to race in anyway that he (the vet) will "get a lot better at seeing lameness" at the finish line. :) Since some vets have already figured out a back door way to disqualify horses from the race without disqualifying it from the ride, it doesn't seem such a bad idea to me to change the rules so they can do it through the front door instead. I'd like to see a show of hands from ride vets themselves. How many of them would like to be able to disqualify a horse as being unfit to continue in the race without having to disqualify the horse as being unfit to continue in the ride? Personally, I think that there are lots of horses that fall into that category by about 2/3 rds of the way through the ride. The way the RULES are right now, vets can ONLY disqualify horses that are unfit to continue the ride and hope that the rider has enough sense not to race that horse the rest of the way. There is no horse that is even fit to START, if the criteria for starting includes, "no matter how stupidly the rider rides the horse." kat Orange County, Calif. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-=-=-=-= Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. 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