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Re: [RC] What is Real Endurance!! - Joe LongOn Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:06:41 -0700 (Mountain Standard Time), "Joane Pappas White" <Lyoness@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: My hope is that I can reach enough of the Newbies to make changes for the better before the organization is irreparably damaged or we have to remove the divisive elements---one way or the other. Although I am totally prepared for the biggest "Flaming" in the history of Ridecamp, I would request that you think about this prediction: What I am saying in this post will be the status quo within 10-15 years, whether we competitive Baby Boomers tear each other apart or not. The younger generation has a sense of civility and inclusion that we often lack, and they will make these changes because theyse changes are right and fair and need to be done for the sport. Two of the great strengths that have been a cornerstone of endurance are civility and inclusion. No one in this discussion is trying to exclude anyone, and most of us have been civil. However, this issue has been going on and been debated for more than 20 years now; I do not agree that in 10-15 years we will see the distance for endurance rides lowered to 25 miles per day. I certainly hope not. When I started Non-endurance riding---as I only do LD and therefore am not a REAL endurance rider-----about 7 years ago, AERC was in serious financial trouble. Had it not been for the dedicated efforts of that BoD and sponsors like Sundowner (whose discount program brought in many new members and still does and many of those ride LD), the predictions then were that AERC would not still be here in 2004. The fact that the organization is here at all is the result of policies of inclusion, not exclusion. True. Anyway you want to look at it , the term "Oldtimer" is no longer one of respect but rather one that is fast becoming synonymous with being an anachronism. Having ridden endurance for a long time, does not make you an Oldtimer. Being an Oldtimer means you have not seen the handwriting on the wall and you continue to cling to attitudes which are counterproductive to the best interests of this organization. When you insist on labels that are archaic and divisive and are intended to demean your own members, you are an Oldtimer---a Dinosaur! We all know what happened to the dinosaurs when they could not adapt. A tactic often used against people who oppose some *particular* change as a change in the wrong direction, is to accuse them of being opposed to change itself. Unfortunately, calling people "dinosaurs" is neither civil nor inclusive, and does not contribute to the debate. BTW, the term "Limited Distance" is an honorable one and not intended to demean anybody. As is the term "Endurance Ride," which is not an archaic or divisive label. I crew for 100 milers in international competition. I would point out that anyone who has actually helped keep a 100 miler and the 100 mile horse in the race, would laugh at those of you who think that you are real endurance riders at 50 miles. Interestingly enough, I find most of the serious 100 milers are gracious and humble and do not need to boost their own importance by pointed out that their division is "100" miles! Perhaps they realize that there are so few of them in 100 miles for the long run, that they remember the old saying, "Remember the faces of the people you step on as you go up the mountain, because those are the same faces you will see as you are coming back down". Well, 100's are my favorite kind of ride, and I've done may of them. Although I've been unable to do one for some time now. You don't have to be a 100-mile rider or a multi-day rider to be an endurance rider, but if you want to experience the finest challenges our sport has to offer, you need to do both of those. I found it delightful to meet some of the best 50 mile riders in the country this year in LD---not because they were "playing nonendurance riders" for the day but because they were saying things like----"I just don't want to ride 50 miles any more! or I love riding with my family in LD and teaching them!" There are many such Oldtimers, who have been doing 50's forever, coming into LD ---On please do tell Julie Suhr that she and Bob are not REAL Endurance riders!! That will end your credibility permanently. Where do you get the idea that riding an LD somehow turns an endurance rider into no longer an endurance rider? Nobody here ever said that. I ride LD's too, you know. And, hey, are you calling Julie Suhr a "Dinosaur" who "continue[s] to cling to attitudes which are counterproductive to the best interests of this organization?" Sorry, I don't think so!!! ; ^ > I could point out that many of you are kidding yourselves about riding "REAL Endurance" right now! Why are the rides that are flat, easy and not really 50 miles long ( but give you credit for 50 miles) growing in number while the REAL Endurance rides like Outlaw Trail are decreasing? The answer is: Oldtimers want to tell themselves that they are still Real Endurance riders. After all, they are the ones who have made LD the bastard child of the sport so now they cannot admit that they are only riding LD. God forbid that they would not get to count such paltry efforts into their lifetime mileage records! BUT THAT IS JUST WHAT YOU ARE DOING AT MANY OF THESE SO CALLED 50 MILE RIDES---YOU ARE RIDING LD! And what is worse, is that you KNOW it, and take credit for the mileage. Several of us have recently discussed the point regarding the difficulty of some 50-mile rides. I'd personally rather see the definition longer, but do you really think there's any chance the AERC will redefine endurance rides as 75 miles in one day and up? Then there is the issue: What is Enduring? Endurance was not just a distance, it was also a trail! Have you heard of the number of ride managers who have cut out a difficult part of the 50 mile course because 50 milers were "whining" about it and would not come back if that part of the course was in the ride. Those of us who live in REAL mountains would point out that the flatlanders are not riding endurance on all those flat gravel roads. REAL endurance is treacherous, rocky, 1000's of feet of elevation changes---Tevis/Cougar Rock in its original state!---not these strolls through the park with courses that are mowed for you! Hmmm, that doesn't sound very inclusive to me. By all means, let's see how many more "labels" we can make that are not REAL endurance! Let see----If you cannot do a multiday on the same horse, you are not a REAL endurance rider! If you have a crew, you are not a REAL endurance rider! Now, while you "REAL" endurance riders are all giving yourselves vanity pats on the back for being real endurance riders, may I remind you that "A House Divided Against Itself WILL Fall! Except that all of those rides are endurance rides, by AERC definition. The only "division" here is coming from a few who want to change LD rides to endurance rides. Or must we eliminate weight divisions, Junior division, etc, so that our house won't fall? Endurance riding started on the wave of the Baby Boom and it will go down with it if this continues. It should be apparent to even the most casual observer, that the majority of people in this sport will eventually vote to abolish the REAL/NONREAL distinction at some point and we will all become endurance riders for the benefit of the sport. At that time, there will be divisions that will embrace everyone in a "win-win" situation because no one needs to perpetuate the "I am better than you" mentality that has created the distinctions in the first place. You will earn lifetime endurance miles credited to each division, and there will be enough recognition for a job well done to keep everyone in this sport and many more knocking on the door. It is only a matter of time and leadership and how many "Oldtimers" have to be removed first. I hope you are mistaken. Having a sport with challenging goals, people who work hard to achieve those goals, and recognition of those achievements is a worthwhile thing that I hope we never lose. Hmmmm ... how does "removing Oldtimers" jibe with civility and inclusion? (an oldtimer and proud of it) -- Joe Long jlong@xxxxxxxx http://www.rnbw.com =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. 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