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RE: [RC] RE:[AERC-Members] Protecting.... - Stewart, CarrieI agree with everything you have said Heidi, but what happens in the interim, during the learning process? If riders don't have any incentive for taking it easy and running a smart ride, horses are going to continue to need treatment or crash at rides where owners are so focuses on running that some subtleties can be missed or forgiven as we are pushing harder on that day. I admit that I know only enough to home treat my horses if they are not in need of serious medical care, so I leave it up to vets to work out the subtleties of that part. If there is no way to know for sure that a horse was pushed over its limit, how are we going to hold anyone responsible when that happens? If this is the case, then you are right that rider education is the only way to go and hope to God that it sinks into the riders head. I sure enjoyed the demonstration that you and the CAT people put on for the showcase... maybe something like that, packed full of more information (training, metabolics, vitals...), could be part of a mandatory 'newbe' education training ride before anyone ever starts an AERC sanctioned ride? Sort of a certification and 'now you know' type of thing. I can't see that if anyone was really serious about wanting to do endurance that they would think this was a bother instead of a help. Carrie His neigh is like the bidding of a monarch, and his countenance enforces homage. He is indeed a horse... -- William Shakespeare http://www.equinesolutionsnetwork.org -----Original Message----- From: Heidi Smith [mailto:heidi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 9:36 AM To: Stewart, Carrie; Ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [RC] RE:[AERC-Members] Protecting.... There seems to be a perception that the causative factors of a death are always clear-cut if one does an autopsy. This isn't always the case. One can define the pathology involved, and sometimes it is pretty clear that the death was not in any way related to riding. And sometimes, the pathology backs up the observed progression of an overriding situation. But to say "this death we can blame on the rider" just based on the pathology is in a lot of cases a real stretch. Case in point--Adios actually died of a ruptured stomach. Did Darolyn rupture his stomach? No. Did the autopsy identify the metabolic reasons that led to the rupture of his stomach? Apparently not--or at least we are not aware of an answer if it did. Was overriding a factor here? Possibly. But can we determine that from the autopsy? No. All we CAN say for certain is that the horse needed treatment, and was treated with fluids via stomach tube. And that after he died, it was evident that death was immediately caused by a ruptured stomach. Period. Have we learned anything here? You betcha. We've learned to question administration of fluids via stomach tube to metabolically compromised horses. Valuable lesson. We've also added to our knowledge of events leading to the crash of one horse--which can be added to our cumulative knowledge of crashes in general. That's all important. Is there enough information here to hang Darolyn from the rafters over it? No. But there are things here that are well worth discussing--just as we've been doing--could there be a pre-existing factor here (ie could Darolyn look into horse selection with regard to metabolics in the future), could there be an issue of weather change (does Darolyn need to make adjustments when she runs in cooler areas, and if so, what might those adjustments be), could there be warning signs that Darolyn might have heeded, and might pay more specific attention to if a horse exhibits them in the future, etc. (No, I'm not picking on Darolyn here--just using the Adios case as a springboard--you can insert "rider" for "Darolyn" in the above and have a general comment.) And the way we LEARN is to discuss such things. We are getting the cart before the horse here in trying to assign punitive aspects. We don't even understand what it is that causes one horse to die under the same circumstances under which another horse goes happily on year after year. FIRST we need to learn and to educate. Then and only then can we determine if punitive actions are in order. Adding punitive measures prematurely hobbles the learning process, as people are less apt to be forthcoming with pertinent information if they fear a penalty for it. Heidi =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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