Home Current News News Archive Shop/Advertise Ridecamp Classified Events Learn/AERC
Endurance.Net Home Ridecamp Archives
ridecamp@endurance.net
[Archives Index]   [Date Index]   [Thread Index]   [Author Index]   [Subject Index]

Re: [RC] [RC] Rearing - Laurie Durgin

Excellent!!!!
I too had almost the same experience with Rascal. I think there is a major difference between rearing from fear(as John Lyons said ,a horse usually up because thier other escape routes are cut off.), and rearing from 'nastiness" a learned trait as it accomplished something for them.
Rascal in the beginning when going out, would see something he was chicken about and refuse to go forward, try to dodge, then started backing, I knew enough by that time to realise he was getting "light " in front and rearing was "next" . So instead I tried circling (which worked later if he was just testing me, but didn't in the beginning as it was true fear.)I stumbled on my 'alternative " at the time , I got off and we walked pat the spooky object with me muttering about 'alpo'. Then I'd remount at a relaxed distance and go on. I was alone, and didn't want to try things I thought risky, so it worked for me. I also took ,carrots, grain etc. And allowed him to 'graze' on the trail till he really looked forward to going out.
The one time my husband rode him when green, he tried to 'force" him with a switch to cross a puddle, I warned him ,he was afraid, husband got dumped witha spin. Needless to say, we learned fear/confidence was his problem for some things. Later he would test, I just had to learn the difference.


I think some on thei subject are confusing the FEARFUL horse, with the NASTY BEASTLY horse. You have to have discernment which it is, and proceeed accordingly.I always try to not use force, but there are exceptions (biting, kicking) when I use the least amount of force to let them know it's a no no, without causing any possible permanet harm (head is off limits). Pushy horses run into my elbow or may get a smack on the side. I hate to hit any animal, but sometimes you have too to get to their level.But I don't use it to 'train ".I try to use positive reinforcement, and making the wrong ,uncomfortable or boring.
But a RANK horse is a whole different subject.. . ,.. . . . Laurie/Rascal the 'tester' with Napoleonic complex,, Honey , sensitive, smart, but don't try heavyhandedness with her, Scout, the curious, who has his mothers unflappableness.


From: Arabs4sprt@xxxxxxx
To: ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [RC]   Rearing
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 01:55:07 EDT

I have to step into this one for just a few comments.
My 18 year old Arabian mare reared when I got her as a 4 year old. We
would begin a trail ride get to the point where we were about to go out of sight
of the barn and she would plant her feet, I'd kick her forward and she'd just
stand there. I'd kick harder and she would start backing up. I'd kick her
again and finally she would rear. Not very high, more like a levade than a
rear. And she would stay there, in the air, just hanging there. Since this was
my first experience with this sort of thing I didn't really know what to do.
So since kicking wasn't working I just leaned forward and waited. After about
15 or 20 seconds she would come down. I'd kick again, she'd rear up again,
I'd wait, she'd come back down. After a while she got tired of it and just
walked a few steps forward. I praised her. After a while she reared less and
less. Now keep in mind that she was never dangerous when she was rearing, she
was more like the Breyer statue of the rearing horse, poised, balanced, but not
really doing anything else. Since I'd had a QH racing mare who was spookier
than any Arab I've ever ridden the kind of rearing my Arab mare did didn't
bother me. What bothered me was that she wouldn't go forward. My point is that
I accidentally did the right thing by being patient with her. She got past
her balking (which is what the rearing really was), and I didn't lose my temper
and make it worse.
I can recommend a proceedure for a rearing horse who is just balking
because I later used this technique to get her be happier out on the trail when
what she really wanted was to go back to the barn -- get a friend to go out with
you on a walking trail ride, this person should be on foot. Make sure your
horse is wearing a halter with lead rope attached, or a halter-bridle with lead
rope, as well as a bit and bridle. When the horse plants the feet and stops,
the person on the ground takes the lead rope and walks the horse a little
further on, say 20 feet. (Caution don't do this if the horse is rearing in a
dangerous manner or doesn't have good ground manners.) If the horse has any
decent ground training at all the horse will walk along and have a very confused
look on its face. As soon as the horse seems to be walking well the person on
the ground hands the lead rope back to the person riding the horse. You
continue on as if nothing has happened, talk about the weather etc., nice and calm,
until the horse plants its feet again. When that happens the rider once
again hands the lead rope to the person on the ground and that person walks the
horse forward. You continue this way until you have made the complete riding
loop that you intended. (Don't walk your assistant's legs off, a half mile or a
mile ride is all you need.) The idea is to get the horse used to being away
from its fellow horses, to begin to trust the rider, and to fall back on
previous positive experiences (being led is hopefully a positive experience). To
make it an even better experience have the assistant carry some treats for the
horse and before turning back toward the stable stop and praise the horse and
give it the treats. This reinforces the idea that "out there" away from the
stable is a good thing as opposed to an evil scary thing. This really worked
and to my dressage teacher's chagrin transformed my levading/rearing horse into
a horse that loves going out for trail rides, she has never levaded again.
It only took 2 of these rides before my mare was happy going out from the barn
by herself.
I've read a book recently that would have saved me a lot of time
developing that method for getting my mare over her fears (14 years ago), it is called
"You Can Train Your Horse To Do Anything!" by Shawna and Vinton Karrasch. I
got it for Christmas this past year and I love it. They use clicker and
target training with a totally reward based system to train and retrain all kinds
of bad behaviors into willing enthusiastic partners. Now I will use the
occassional slap on a horse, but I reserve that for situations in which other
horses would do the same thing for example when a young horse tries to assert
dominance over you by threatening to bite or kick, but I use that only under those
circumstances and I always try to provide a good reward for correct behavior.
I never use physical force with a horse that is scared, that only reinforces
that there is something the horse should be scared of. Other than that I have
been trying to use reward alone and let me tell you it is amazing how fast
the horses catch on that there is something in it for them -- if they can only
figure out what you want them to do! It works with scared horses, I've been
able to retrain a horse that was afraid of trailers because she had been in a
trailer accident using a reward system where other systems using release of
discomfort (you know irritate them by tapping with the whip until they move
forward) failed utterly. She now practically runs to the trailer to jump in because
of the reward system. This is not some "horse whisperer" system, this is the
same system that they use at Sea World to train the animals there! This is
basic psychology, people and animals learn much faster and easier with positive
reinforcement than with negative reinforcement. In fact it is the same
system that you should be hoping the schools are using to get your kids to learn
enthusiastically! And best of all it really works.
My two cents.

Tracy Scheinkman
Misty Mountain Arabian Sport Horses
Tucson, AZ

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

http://www.endurance.net/ads/seabiscuit.html

 Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net.
 Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


_________________________________________________________________
<b>Get MSN 8</b> and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

http://www.endurance.net/ads/seabiscuit.html

Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net.
Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp
Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=