Ridecamp: [RC] Permission or Forgiveness

K S SWIGART katswig@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Bob & Amber Roberts said:

> Re: [RC] Trail Marking
> At 08:08 AM 9/4/2002 -0700, Barbara McCrary wrote:
>>We were told this year that we couldn't even use Dolomite on the ground,
>>after we had been doing it for 30 years.  But I guess that's what I get for
>>asking if it was OK.  Next time: keep mouth shut.


>  What's that saying?  It's easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission.

I know somebody for whom this most definitely is NOT the case.
As long as you let him know in advance what you are planning to do
and ask him if it is okay with him, he will almost always say
that it is fine with him.  OTOH, even with the most benign things,
if you have not checked with him first he will be upset about it 
for months, years, or will be of the opinion that there is nothing
you can do right.  Attempting to explain yourself or pointing out
to him why you didn't think that it would be a big deal will only
make matters worse.  So not only are you much better off asking
for permission, but asking for forgiveness will just remind him
how much it upset him.

Some people have a hard time dealing with this guy.  I don't, I
just make a point of asking his permission until he tells me to
stop doing so (i.e. "You don't have to keep asking me if it is
all right.")

Additionally, I have found that for most people, it is much more
conducive to successful long term relationships if you take the
attitude that it is easier to get permission than to have to ask
for forgiveness...except that you don't have to ask permission 
for something that you have been doing all along.

So, when it comes to trail marking, no, I wouldn't ask if it were
okay to keep doing something I have been doing for years, but
damn straight, I would ask permission if I were going to do
something differently.  And if the person that I was asking 
permission of had a problem with it, I would then say, "Okay, but
here is my problem.  How would you suggest I solve it?"

You might be surprised how eager most people are to help other people
solve their problems. And they might even have some good ideas :).
And if they don't have any better ideas, they might then decide
that your solution isn't such a bad one after all...and give you 
permission.

For me?  Having to ask forgiveness from a person who has the 
authority to stop me from using or marking a trail would be
something to avoid.

In my experience, there are very few people from whom it is 
easier to get forgiveness than permission, and I only will take
such an approach with somebody that I know REALLY well (for
instance, it is the approach that my mother takes with my 
father...because from years of experience with him, she knows
this to be true).

It does, however, require that you know how to effectively ask
permission.  What I have found works well in many situations is
to say, "This is what I am planning to do.  Is that okay with
you?"  If they say yes? Great, just do it.  If they say no? Then
the obvious follow up is, "Okay, what would you like me to do
instead?"  Usually, their preference is going to be some variation
on what you proposed in the first place.

kat
Orange County, Calif.


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