Ridecamp: Re: [RC] Wine Country/Gastroguard

> Why should this rock the AERC drug rule?  

FEI allows Gastroguard.  Some noise in AERC membership 
sputtering about that fact.


First, this is a much lower incidence 
> of ulcers than what is seen in disciplines such as 
racing (estimated around 90% 
> there).  Second, ulcers are still a matter of 
management (and in some cases, a 
> matter of horse selection to start with).  Giving 
these horses drugs is good 
> therapy, but is not a solution to getting them through 
competition.  It isn't 
> any different than treating any other medical 
condition--take the horse home, 
> give him appropriate medical care, alter your feeding 
and management so that you 
> lower your chances of repeating the problem, and THEN 
come back to competition.
> 
> I'd suspect the following conditions in our horses 
which need to be addressed:
> 
> 1) First and foremost, selection of horses.  Horses 
that internalize stress are 
> by far the highest at risk, and are handicapped in 
this sport in many other 
> ways.

Agreed.  Although a higher wound horse may be 
more "competitive" in mind sometimes and therefore 
performs at a higher level than another horse with the 
same physical attributes and less competitive in mind.


> 
> 2)  Feeding practices--careful with the concentrates, 
miracle additives, etc.

Okay - but my horse is not on any concentrates, or 
miracle additives to begin with and he still has an 
ulcer.  The most concentrates he gets is Complete 
Advantage and Source when his weight drops.  The rest of 
the year he is just on pasture or hay.

> 
> 3)  Electrolyting practices--this should maybe have 
been in the #2 spot.  Can't 
> say for sure, as we didn't used to scope horses, but I 
sure see a LOT  more 
> horses with mild symptoms typical of ulcers than I did 
in the pre-electrolyte 
> days, and I'd suspect there is a connection to pouring 
all that concentrated 
> electrolyte mix down them.  Again, horse selection is 
a factor here--there is a 
> tremendous difference among individuals in how much 
they NEED (based on how well 
> they manage what they get out of feed, how well they 
reduce loss in sweat, 
> etc.).  But then there are ways to administer and ways 
not to administer.  
> Obviously any e-lytes eaten in food are the least 
abrasive to the stomach.  
> Beyond that, non-absorbed buffers (antacids, etc.) are 
likely needed far beyond 
> the level at which they are actually used.  There is 
an old truism that 
> "everything possesses the defects of its qualities."  
This is true of e-lytes as 
> well--the horse may benefit, but there is always a 
flip side, and I think we're > looking at one right here.

I specifically asked the research vet about this issue 
because what you are saying made sense to me also.  He 
said that from what he knows of the equine digestive 
system, e-lyting shouldn't be a factor.


> 
> 4)  Housing.  I'd suspect this to be more of an issue 
in CA than in some areas, 
> because land is at such a premium there.  

There are a lot more open spaces than you think in 
California.  My horse is in a 200 acre steep hilly 
pasture in San Jose with 20 other horses.  The horses 
scoped in the study is running about 80% pasture horses 
by the time I got scoped and we still are ending up with 
approximately 75% with ulcers.  

Granted - they are just beginning to study this in 
endurance horses so I'm sure that more information will 
come out.  The vet had said that they used to rule out 
viral/bacterial causes in horses, but they are beginning 
to rethink that in some of the more chronic cases.



But horses that live in confinement or 
> in hectic environments are far more prone to ulcers.
> 
> Am sure there are many more management issues here, 
but you get the drift....
> 
> Heidi
>   

My horse is pretty much left alone to graze and play in 
the pasture unless I trailer him out for a local 
training ride once or twice a week or an endurance 
ride.  I hardly call this hectic and he still has an 
ulcer.  But he does internalize his emotions quite a bit.

I wouldn't be so hasty to draw too many conclusions 
before the results of the study are published.  I think 
that this study is significant and I'm glad I 
participated in it.  

If you get a chance to participate in these endoscopy 
study - please do whether or not you think that your 
horse has an ulcer.    I sometimes wonder if the results 
are skewed because people like me that have horses that 
are showing symptoms are the ones showing up for the 
study - so the more "real baseline" data given the 
better.

The researcher was also very open to other research 
suggestions - such as studying BLM mustangs, etc.  So 
far the only studies have been done on FEI/Olympic 
horses (dressage, eventing, etc.) and racehorses which 
as Heidi points out - are management practice issues.  
The significance here is that we have a population of 
endurance horses competing that are on pasture that are 
still showing ulcers.  What does that mean?

K.

>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Howard Bramhall 
>   To: kathy.mayeda@xxxxxxx ; ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>   Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 10:32 AM
>   Subject: Re: [RC] Wine Country/Gastroguard
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: kathy.mayeda@xxxxxxx
>     Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 12:23 PM
>     To: ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>     Subject: [RC] Wine Country/Gastroguard
> 
>     This is going to rock the "no drug" AERC rules a bit: way over half the 
> horses scoped at the ride had ulcers...... This is the first time they ever 
> scoped endurance horses and they were still scoping at the time of the awards so > I'm not going to quote the percentages that were announced at the meeting. The 
> bad news for me and Beau continued. I had him scoped because I suspected that he 
> may have ulcers by some of the symptoms I noticed from him at rides. He had a 
> ulcer on the gland - 4 on a scale of 6.
> 
>     -----
> 
>     OMG!  Man, I did not want to hear that one.  Over half?  Well, gee, I guess 
> I know what the topic of Ridecamp is going to be this week.  Hey, Roger, what do 
> you say?  Weren't you expecting less than 5%, at best?
> 
>     I would like to know more; like how many horses participated in the test, 
> what the testing involved,  and all that.  I didn't think too many riders would 
> participate in the study since you were supposed not to feed them for 12 hours, 
> which sounds like a crazy thing to do, if you ask me, at an endurance ride.
> 
>     More figures, Kathy, please.  I believe I'm not alone when I ask for more 
> details here.  Damn interesting study.  What sport is safe for a horse?  Is 
> anything?
> 
> 
> 
>     cya,
> 
>     Howard (can you prevent an ulcer from happening before it occurs?)
> 
> 

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