Re: Re: Manners--was stereotypes

["S.N." <nikstai@qis.net>]

>>BUT I will walk away before
> I have to use much force and/or get hurt.  I don't care if your horse has
> three shoes on - if he can't stand relatively well for the fourth, and I
> feel he is endangering me, I will get in my truck and go to my next
client.


This is all well and good, and no one can fault you or anyone else for
protecting yourself from a truly aggressive or dangerous animal. But, let me
give some thoughts...

Many young horses, particularly the more sensitive ones, will stand
perfectly well for their regular handlers, and allow all sorts of work to be
done...however, when a stranger approaches (i.e. a farrier) they often need
to "relearn" how to stand quietly and allow certain procedures - the concept
of allowing any human to have complete control over them is NOT something
that is "automatic", and its something that is generally acquired over time.
Granted, a farrier is not a trainer, and the owner bears the responsibility
of holding and controlling the animal; but the farrier MUST at least have a
basic knowledge of horses....and should expect that a youngster may not
always be perfect the first couple times, and have the firm patience
required to get through this, without allowing the horse to walk all over
them, AND without causing the horse excessive fear. There is a time and
place for discipline, but none at all for shortcuts disguised as such. It is
unfortunate if the profession decides that understanding horses and helping
them acclimate to the procedures is no longer part of their "job
description".  Managing a large veterinary complex in the city, I see this
"assembly-line attitude" daily in the vets and technicians, and it saddens
me (no, not all vets and techs are so - but some are - this is not intended
to be a flame, just an observation)

There is a fine line, and I suppose there will always be those farriers that
would just as soon shoe a horse-less hoof than one attached to a live,
sometimes irrational beast that doesn't always conform to a human's time
schedules.

As a side note, it is perfectly reasonable to expect to pay more when a
farrier must spend extra time with a youngster - my last farrier never
charged extra for the youngsters first few sessions - but I always threw
some in, as a thank you for his time and extra effort. I'd pay double that
just to have one like him here now.

~S




----- Original Message -----
From: Laura Hayes <mark@madbbs.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 2:38 PM
Subject: RC: Re: Manners--was stereotypes


> I am a farrier of 16 years experience, and have successfully used a lip
> chain in the past, as well as other restraints, BUT I will walk away
before
> I have to use much force and/or get hurt.  I don't care if your horse has
> three shoes on - if he can't stand relatively well for the fourth, and I
> feel he is endangering me, I will get in my truck and go to my next
client.
> After all these years I have learned that there are enough good horses
> around to not have to mess with the bad.  BTW, I do not shoe full time
> anymore, but I do groom dogs two days a week, and the same goes for dogs.
I
> will not use excessive force - but I will call you and tell you to pick
> Fluffy up as he is snapping at me and I can't even get a muzzle him.  I
> don't mean to make it sound like I am a wimp, in fact, I am know to have
> alot of patience, but when it gets too rough, I'm history.  Maybe being a
> woman makes that easier, but my clients are loyal and longstanding, so I
> don't think I am too quick to pull the trigger (or get out the truck
> keys...)
>
> Laura
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "CMNewell" <reshan@deyr.ultranet.com>
> To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 12:04 PM
> Subject: RC: Manners--was stereotypes
>
>
> > >But I doubt that anyone but the most experience handler
> > >and the calmest horse would allow a chain to only apply enough pressure
> to
> > >release endorphins and not make a mess of the gums and freak the horse
> out
> > >more as you suspected.
> >
> >
> > Actually, it's not too hard at all to apply subtle pressure with a lip
> > chain. Anyone who has to make a mess of the gums  in using one isn't
> > skilled enough to use it--sort of like a spade bit or spurs or any other
> tool.
> >
> > And while the farrier mentioned earlier sounds a bit hasty, there are an
> > awful lot of folks  who make excuses for ill trained spoiled horses,
then
> > get all riled up when the farrier/vet/dentist/chiro, etc.  expect them
to
> > behave.
> >
> > Wake up, guys. Unless you're paying us to train your horse, it's your
> > responsibility to present us with one that is already trained. No equine
> > professional can afford to get hurt by someone's spoiled pet and be out
of
> > work.
> >
> > Fortunately most of us with a DVM can use drugs instead of training, but
> > I've run across a few that came close to hurting me before I could get
the
> > chemical restraint on board.
> >
> > If you don't do your homework, IMHO you have no grounds for objecting
when
> > we  use what techniques are necessary to get our job done.
> >
> > I have  spent extra time working on  getting  horses who've had a bad
> > experience or three to come around to the idea that I'm not the Devil
> > Incarnate, but that's    different from a  horse who has no respect for
> > humans because they've been allowed to walk all over  them. Those are
the
> > most dangerous variety.
> >                                           --CMNewell, DVM
> >
> >
> >
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