FW: Ivers, Bill & smoking gun

["John Teeter" <johnt@goldhill.com>]

Forwarded by request....

-----Original Message-----
From: Darolyn Butler-Dial [mailto:darolyn@swbell.net]
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 6:34 PM
To: ride camp
Subject: Ivers, Bill & smoking gun


Hi Ridecampers,
Boy -- this is more interesting by the moment... But I'm with Kathy M.  I'm
going to share this with all, then retire from this melee.... have to many
wonderful horsey things to do to obsess with it any more.  BTW... Dr. Kellon
is on the naturalhorsetrim@egroup.com list if you would like to continue
picking her up.

As U may have heard, to save face all around I privately e mailed TI my
personal concerns and misgivings about Bill's posts.  Since my friend Tom
has decided to publicly misalign me, I feel I should at least share my views
and the benefit of being from East Texas with those that are interested.  In
fact, I did call ride managers in "deeper" East Texas and asked about any
other groups, or rides/races in that area.  They knew of none.  When I asked
their assessment of Bill, their only comment was that his horse seemed
barely suited to do the 25 milers, they didn't feel that he was even close
to being a 100 mile horse the last time they saw him.  No one in our "east
Texas group" is aware of anyone being pointed out for testing eaither.
Anyway, below is what I sent to Tom (privately in order not to offend Bill
or Tom in a public manner).... looks like Tom is playing with a "no holds
barred" attitude so what the "heh"

Darolyn's post to Tom  5/12
=========================
Hi Tom,
Good to C U this weekend.  Wish U cud have taken a look at Star's feet
afterward (the one the Australian lady rode).  She did 75 barefoot miles on
those rocks... was slightly footsore but not bad... her rider got lost a
bunch & ran out of time & pulled at 75 though.  My horse did ok, but we were
fighting the Horsneakers, etc.... (see lengthy story I'm working on).

BTW.... I've been following this "Bill Thing" rather curiously.  I don't
think I've seen all the posts on it, so its a bit spotty, but I'm getting
the gist of it I'm afraid.  Last week at Biltmore someone asked me if I knew
him, (since he was from Texas).... I told them they must be wrong, as I
didn't think he was from anywhere around here.  I have never heard of him or
anyone like him running in our area.  Now... I will admit I don't know every
soul running here in East Texas but I have to say... with the amount of
research and training he is claiming to do, I would luv to meet & know him.

However, Tom, in friendship, I humbly suggest that you also consider for a
moment the chance of this man conducting a grand "hoax" at all of our
expense.  I know of no other "long distance" riding group over here in East
Texas.  I have heard of no other long distance rides (unsanctioned or
non-AERC) in this part of Texas either.  Exactly what is his mailing address
& phone number.  Have you researched his AERC record?  His claim that an
AERC member tried to have him tested for MSM seems a bit far fetched too.
That just has a funny ring to it.  I've never heard of any of our group
trying to turn someone in like that.

When I read his last story.... all sorts of bells & whistles started going
off.  Maybe its due to the two times in my life I was taken by "excellent"
con-men.  Their stories are so good you just have to believe them.  They are
saying exactly what you want to hear & they are going to make you  A. Rich,
B. Famous,   C.  Loved, or all of the above.  His handling of the lady that
was outrunning him... although it sounds very gallant, I've never in all my
years & 20,000 miles of competition, heard of a rider stepping off his own
mount & giving it to another rider to go for help.  Then... after losing all
the time he must have, to aid her, he still wins the race by a hefty
margin... and all broken up at that.  Someone nailed him on the completion
thing & he quickly changed his story on that.  Which leads me to believe he
may not even be all that familiar with the AERC rules... or whatever rules
he ostensibly runs under.

 When I think back on the car/trailer wreck he had (wish I had saved those
posts)... it seems like there was something a little over dramatic &
preposterous there as well.  It seems like the horse bounced back awfully
quick too, after the seriousness of the accident.

Granted his research seems incredibly thorough and devoted, but that too, is
almost alarming in itself... not to throw too many rocks at our group.... I
don't know anyone that has trained or is training that obsessively.  Its
admirable.... but is it really happening?

I don't know.... I always warn my kids here in our little "endurance
commune" to not jump to too many conclusions...but I also tell them if it
sounds too good to be true.... it probably is.

As a friend Tom... check this guy out.  I've got a bad niggly feeling about
the whole deal.

I'll send U a copy of my "latest barefoot" post if I ever get it done.
Best to you.
djbd
==================================

More to RideCampers:
I bent over backwards to give everyone some wiggle room (as cowboy mark
says), and not be to hypocritical or backbiting.... perhaps its TI's own
naivety in Endurance that he doesn't see or question the "holes" that are in
this man's stories.  I think Tom has gotten strung along to the point that
he would be terribly embarrassed to admit to being duped.  I've been conned
badly twice in my life... or is that 3 times... try to forget... but the
sting stays with you a long time... especially if it was public or involved
any amount of money, which all three of them did.

When Becky H. sent me notice of my banning I responded to her with the
following:
I wrote what I did to TI 'cause I considered him my friend & hated that he
was being duped.  There is a small chance that Bill did do some of the
research stuff he's reported to TI, but his lying about the rides & stuff
completely invalidates any research work he might turn in.
Becky asked:  Why would he defend this guy so strongly? Could he have known
all along that it was fake and be playing the crowd? Is he trying to 'save
face'?

DJBD:  Could be all of the above... for TI to be duped by someone to this
degree is obviously unbelievable to the "great one" and he has truble even
thinking that that wud b possible.   So he's going to defend him to the
grave I guess.

Becky: What do you think the other professionals on the list think about it?

DJ:  Well, unless they really examine the "holes" in Bill's accounts and
have the inside info of being from East Texas they may be strung along just
like TI.... however, I think U & I have enough credence to keep our head up,
and it appears that many experienced Endurance riders were beginning to
question the research anyway.  Which is a sad thing for TI, 'cause as we all
know... accuracy and hard facts was the total picture for him.  This can't
help but hurt his over all validity.

Ah - well.... I never could keep up with the horsescience list anyway...
like the Sunday paper... just frustrated me 'cause I couldn't get it all
read in a timely fashion.  I've got enough of them in my inbox that if I get
to missin' it, I can always go back N time.  What I will never miss is the
insulting and gutter language that TI cast upon my head for simply trying to
warn him & look out for his petty list.

Upwards & onwards .... lets just "ride that horse in the direction its
going!"

Watch for my "barefoot report" yall... almost done.
djbd
Darolyn Butler-Dial  & Mark Dial  (COWBOY)