Re: Re: Fw: RC: endurance prospect, etc.

["Sweaney" <sweaney@lightspeed.net>]

Whitney,

"The winner is putting their horses at more risk?"

Then the very same could be said of anyone who rides!  I choose to ride slow
(towards the back of the pack) becasue I do not want to put my horse at any
more risk than possible.  If those who win are putting their horse at risk,
then the same could be said of you from someone is my position at the back
of the pack!

Karen
Sweaney@lightspeed.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Whitney Bass <bass@bigsky.net>
To: <Tivers@aol.com>; <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2000 5:46 PM
Subject: RC: Re: Fw: RC: endurance prospect, etc.


Tom, I must have struck a nerve, as you've resorted to personal attacks.  I
guess I should have known better, having been a "lurker" for quite some
time. . . But for your info., I think that the "clear goal" of endurance
riding is to finish, not to win.  And yes, I think that generally, the
winner is putting their horse at more risk.  It's only logical.  Whether
it's in a race to the finish line (risking lameness), or asking your horse
to go at an incredible pace for an extended length of time, its putting the
horse at more "risk".  That's what I've seen, that's my opinion.  And as
far as "conditioning an athlete that is fully capable of being safely asked
for a winning performance" goes, that's my point.  I have athletes that are
capable of a winning performance, but so do others -- and chances are that
they are willing to ask their horse for more than I am, if and when it
comes down to the finish line.  I don't think that makes me a bad person,
Tom.  I do realize that "to win" is generally the idea of "athletic sport",
but this sport involves an incredibly selfless animal as the other half the
partnership, so I think we need to be more careful not to involve our own
egos as much.   But really, I don't know why I'm discussing this with you
at all -- you're rude, and you really should stick with the aspects of
endurance riding that you KNOW something about.  So, I'm done. . .



> From: Tivers@aol.com
> To: bass@bigsky.net; ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: RC:   Fw: RC:  endurance prospect, etc.
> Date: Sunday, February 06, 2000 4:39 PM
>
> In a message dated 2/6/00 12:38:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,
bass@bigsky.net
> writes:
>
> << > My only point, Tom, was that I have a hard time with this sport of
>  > endurance riding sometimes.  Not because I don't want to win, or have
the
>  > horses to make it possible -- it's because at most rides, the
(eventual)
>  > winner is willing to push their horse harder than I am.  Believe me,
I
>  > went through a stage where winning was important to me.  Even raced
for
>  > miles on end at the end of a couple of fifties in order to place first
>  (or
>  > even second).  And I hated the way it made me feel, and I hate the way
it
>  > makes me feel when I see others do it.  So I made the decision to
learn
>  > from what I felt were mistakes, and change my mentality.  >>
>
>
> I don't think I missed your point, but I'll deal with the one expressed
> above. Pushing a horse beyond its capabilities is obviously stupid,
dangerous
> and expensive. Asking a well-prepared athlete to deliver his best is
another
> matter. That's the whole idea of athletic sport. And if a sport has a
"first
> place, second place, third place", then, clearly, the object is to win.
If
> the object was to lose, then you'd have a "last place, next to last
place,
> next to next to last place". Are you with me so far?
>
> When you say "the eventual winner is willing to push their horse harder
than
> I am", it's a statement without criteria. Define "push". Is it the same
as
> "ask", or does it mean that winners automatically are putting their
animals
> at risk? If it means the latter, what evidence is there of that? For
example,
> in the last ride you were in, where you finished 10th, on purpose, so
that
> you wouldn't have to face the guilt of winning, did the winner injure the

> horse by winning? You can't win if you injure your horse, can you?
>
> Did the rider who finished 15th accuse you of pushing your horse too hard
to
> finish in the top ten? Why not? Same logic applies all the way down to
last
> place. The last place horse, according to your scenario, has the morally
> superior rider. Even more morally superior is the rider who, having left
the
> horse home to graze, comes to the ride soley for the purpose of selling T

> shirts for a profit while glowering at all the rest of you for torturing
> horseflesh.
>
> By that logic, I was morally superior for riding in the Sheikh's
passenger
> seat rather than on a poor sweating beast of burden. Sure feel good about

> myself about that, and I want to tell all the rest of you monsters that
even
> putting a halter on a horse is cruel and unusual punishment and you
should
> all be ashamed of yourselves. Would you believe there's a gold halo over
my
> head as I write this?
>
> Ms Bass, you're confused. Whatever the source of your personal guilt,
> projecting it onto others is not the solution. They tell me Jesus already

> died for your sins. So forget them and, if you choose to participate in a

> sport that has "first place, second place, and third place", why not
attempt
> to condition an athlete that is fully capable of being safely asked for a

> winning performance?  This will keep you very busy with not enough time
to
> worry about others' motivations. And you won't find yourself tied in a
> logical knot all the time.
>
> Or, if your own inadequacies force you to behave in a way that enables
you to
> automatically pass moral judgements on others without any possible
knowledge
> of their motivations, then you might do better as the Flying Nun. I know
that
> I'm going to start calling myself the Passgenger Priest now that I
understand
> the horrors involved in winning endurance races. Lord knows, I have a
bushel
> of inadequacies to cover up. Sister Bass, let me introduce Father Ivers
of
> the Church of What's Happenin' Now.
>
> To win is to win.
>
> ti
>
>
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