Re: couple of nutritional questions(long)

["Susan Garlinghouse" <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>]

I can offer my own opinions---

> I've had absolutely nothing to do at work today so
> instead I've been surfing the archives. I have a
> couple of questions about supplements and nutrition.
>  First, I'll start with what I feed and supplement. My
> guy gets about 1/2 to 3/4 oat hay and 1/4 to 1/2
> alfalfa hay mix per day. I give him about 4 lbs of
> Complete Advantage/day,along with Focus WT,
> glucosamine,strongid, 4oz (or 1/2 cup) soybean oil,
> and add a little cracked corn on the days he gets
> worked hard (for the carbs.)

I don't know what is specifically in Focus, but otherwise this sounds like a
fine diet to me.  I'm assuming you're also providing some free-choice salt,
preferably loose?  Doesn't have to be 'designer' salt, just plain white salt
is fine for at home.


> My questions; I've been thinking about supplementing
> VIT E to his diet for the anti-oxidant effect. I've
> read that you can add up to 5000IU a day (yes, that's
> 5000) is that true? And I don't mean by adding Se and
> Vit E, just the E in soft gel caplets.

Yes, that's the correct way to feed extra, don't open up the gel caps, just
chuck 'em in whole.  Vit E is the fat-soluble vitamin least likely to cause
toxcitiy problems, so you have to try pretty hard to get into dangerous
territory.  The upper limit before getting into excess levels for horses is
around 1000IU/kg diet DM---which is roughly 25-27,000 IU per day for most
horses.  And even then, it won't cause any huge problems, just might start
to interfere with absorption of some of the other fat-soluble vitamins (A,D
and K).

Given the rest of your diet, I'm guessing (pretty roughly) that your horse
is getting somewhere around 1000 IU a day, depending on what's in the Focus.
I also can't remember exactly what the vit e content is in Complete
Advantage, but know they add a significant amount as an antioxidant.  In
either case, adding 5000 IU a day in gel caps is just fine, and sounds like
a good idea to me.  I feed a little extra vit e to my guys, too, especially
during the winter.

BTW, the suggested requirement for idle horses is maybe 600 IU a day, and
about twice that for working horses.  But there's some good data suggesting
higher levels as you're proposing are a good idea.

 Does the
> soybean oil I'm feeding have Vit E in it? Or does the
> BHT and/or BHA (whatever that is) have different
> anti-oxidants?

The soybean oil may or may not have vit E *added* to it, but has a little
vitamin e content itself, about 70 IU per cup.  If I remember correctly,
BHT/BHA is no longer being added to human food products, but I may be wrong
about that.  In any case, BHT/BHA are antioxidants themselves, but don't
supply antioxidant properties in the body itself.

> How does my horse get Vit E from other
> sources?

Any horse on fresh, growing pasture is getting plenty, but the content drops
significantly during cutting, curing and storing.  Most hays have between
5-30 IU per pound, legumes like alfalfa maybe a bit higher.  Grains have
about half that of hay.


I know I should have blood drawn, that's my
> next step, to see if he is lacking in anything.

Don't count on a blood panel showing you a whole lot about nutritional
status.  You can check for a few things like selenium status, a few
electrolyte deficiencies like sodium or chloride, iron deficiency or
indications of a protein deficiency (the latter two I can tell you right now
you don't have to worry about), that's about it.  Any other changes you'd
see would more likely be due to some disease process, like kidney problems,
rather than an indication of dietary deficiencies or excess.  But,
occasional cham panels are a good idea, anyway, just to see what's going on
with your guy and if anything interesting is showing up.


> Other questions, unrelated; I'm going to start playing
> with Carbo Charge, little by little. The idea of
> playing with his blood sugar levels scares me a
> little. But luckily I have a diabetic boyfriend who I
> can steal a Glyco meter from, Hehehe. Ok, my question
> is on how to mix the stuff, I'm thinking oil would be
> a good (if maybe messy) idea, is there any reason this
> wouldn't work?

Other than it also being messy, I'm not a big fan of feeding added fat
during a ride.  It doesn't really help with immediate energy production,
slows gastric emptying and can depress the appetite for other more important
things during the ride like forage.  You might talk to Karen Chaton, she's
done a lot with using CC during rides, I think she has some stuff on her
website about it, but don't have the url handy.

good luck,
Susan G