Re: Re: RC: bitting questions (long)

[Amanda Perez <amandaperez@ureach.com>]

I have yet to do an endurance ride but I have 
schooled/reschooled many horses.  My 2 cents worth, below:

> Ok, I have just started riding my 4 yr old gelding.  ... I 
> noticed that he would not really listen to the bit and kept
> stretching his head to the ground. I don't know enough about 
> green horses to know if he was confused, evading the bit, the 
> bit didn't fit, was just being his goofball mouthy
> neck-stretchy self or whatever.  I didn't fight him since I 
> didn't want to mess up his mouth not knowing what I was doing.

   If you don't want him to grab the bit/stretch, LET HIM KNOW 
IT!  It does not have to be by banging his mouth.  I teach all 
my animals a "Knock It Off" command.   With my dogs, 
it's "Leave It!".  For my horse, I go "ANGHT!" (sounds like a 
game-show "wrong answer" buzzer). Use whatever comes 
reflexively to you.  You can teach this on the ground by making 
the sound simultaneously with adminstering the correction of 
your choice (smack with a crop, whatever).  Ideally you should 
set the horse up to do something you don't want it do do, so 
you are not correcting him for nothing.  I usually use eating 
grass while bitted, since it's an easy set-up, but that would 
not do for an endurance  mount! If you're horse laways rubs his 
head against you while bridled, that's a good one.  For those 
who want to use more positive reinforcement type conditioning, 
couple the command with the removal of a positive stimulous;  
feed him a treat or some grain, and suddenly remove the treat 
while saying "No!" (or command of choice) - with thios approach 
he does not need to be misbehaving at the time. You know the 
horse has the idea when you say "NO!", "ANGHT!" or whatever and 
his head snaps up and he looks concerned.  Ince the command is 
conditioned, you can use it whenever he gets grabby/mouthy with
the bit so he KNOWS it's a no-no. 

> I was using a fat eggbutt snaffle and the trainer was using a 
> full cheek snaffle.  The trainer worked him in 2 
> environments - round pen and on trail.  I have found that the 
> horse goes beautifully on the trail and is getting much 
> better in the arena.  But he acts very confused in an open 
> field with no trail.  He sticks his head up in the air, down 
> to the ground and just kind of fights me - and seems
> nervous too.

  Sounds to me like he is looking for someone to tell him where 
to go: he is used to getting his direction from the rail fo the 
arena or a visible trail, not from you.  I'd do alot of work 
off the rail/trail: serpentines, circles, diagonals, etc so he 
learns to go where you tell him and not just to follow the 
yellow brick road.  You'll need to use constant light contact 
with both hands and legs to guide him - a loose rein will just 
confuse him.  That might be why your trainer is getting 
different resulst - s/he may be providing the horse more 
direction with seat and hands.

> The problem is most evident at a canter - head goes down with 
> a little crow-hopping.  

  For this I'd do lots and lots of transitions - walk to trot 
to wlak to trot to canter to walk - starting with just a few 
strides in each gait, to teach him to listen and pay attention 
to what comes next.  Also use the verbal correction for the 
crow-hopping - that's just plain silliness (assuming saddle 
fits well and there are no soreness issues: how well do you sit 
to his canter?) and should NOT be tolerated.  In this case I;d 
say it's OK to use your hands to get his head up.  And don't be 
afraid to keep quiet, light contact while riding: he needs to 
be told where to go, using both hands and seat, in order to 
avoid confusion.  I am assuming you have light, quiet hands - 
ask someone knowlegable to watch you ride and evaluate your 
hands.  If you are really unconfortable with riding 'on-
contact' due to his green mouth, or are unconfident int he 
lightness/steadiness of your hands, try rubber reins or elastic 
inserts (such as 'Rein-Aid'): this will prevent any bangs to 
the mouth from being too harsh.  
 
> I have ridden him with a bitless bridle and he goes pretty 
> well.  But as he's gaining confidence, he's starting to 
> resist me and want to have more control over our speed.  So 
> as he's started acting up a bit, I've been less
> confident about going bitless.

  Again, practicing transitions and verbally correcting ALL 
silliness IMMEDIATELY should help this.  Do alot of walk-trot 
work before doing cantering.  Transition work can be mixed up 
with the circles/serpentines etc once he is doing OK with them 
separately:  serpentine the ring, alternating loops at a walk 
with loops at a trot.  Do a circle at a trot followed by one at 
a canter.  Do a diagonal across the ring half at a walk half at 
a trot etc.   Mix it up - don't fall into a fixed, repetitive 
drill: keep him busy and guessing. Just remember that all this 
is hard work for a green horse so intersperse LOTS of rest 
periods and love-fests (pats, praise etc) and keep sessions 
short.

> I had his teeth checked in the spring, but haven't had them 
> checked since, so I can't rule out issues there until I get 
> the dentist out.  But there were no issues at the time and he 
> has had his wolf teeth out.  I have no
> idea what to look at to determine if there might be teeth 
> issues, nor how to look at a horses mouth to determine what 
> kind of bits might work.

  IMO I don't think it's a tooth issue, or even a bitting issue 
per se, but just green horse goofyness.  If you do think it's 
the bit, I'd try an un-jointed bit - a straight-bar rubber 
snaffle or a kimberwicke, starting with the chain very loose 
(or better yet with a strap insead of a chain). I'd stay away 
from any sort of curb/shanked bit.  Some horse just don't like 
jointed bits (mine is one).

> I appreciate any ideas and I will be sticking to the arena 
> until we have a direction that seems to make sense.

  Don't totally forsake the trail.  You don't want to end up 
with a ring-sour horse, and your ultimate goal is the open 
trail so he needs to learn to listen to you there as well.  All 
the exercises above can be done in an open field and the 
transistion work can be done on the trail.  If he seems to 
uncontrollable at the canter, stick to walking/trotting on the 
trail and do your canter-work in the ring.  Also be sure to 
make sure he has some fun - don't school %100 of the time you 
are riding if you can help it, even if it means getting off and 
walking him, stopping to let him graze, etc.  Give him a chance 
to suceed: spend at least 70% of each ride doing those things 
he does well and enjoys - don't work on his 'issues' the entire 
time.


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