Re: Re: Please explain NH to me.

["Tracey" <tracey@tbt.co.za>]

Hi, Shannon,


I appreciate what you have said, and I agree with most of it.  This
discussion started as a thread about Spookiness, and how this problem can be
solved in the round pen.  That is where my disagreement begins.  Of course,
my disagreement, being somewhat alive, and not very disciplined, moved on
into other realm : it flirted briefly with commercialism, made a pass over
rider-confidence and toyed for a while with bonding.  It visited for quite a
while with "unnatural natural horsemanship".  I think I have it firmly under
control again, however, and have asked it to focus, for a brief moment, on
your post:


>If you read and study natural horsemanship (aside from Monty Roberts...who
really seems to work better with humans than horses), there is infinitely
more schooling there than round pen techniques.>

But we weren't discussing those : we were discussing spookiness, and how it
can be cured through bonding in a round pen.  I said that it could be cured
via other methods and, well, it all went downhill from there, really.


>There are distinct advantages in using herd dynamics in training.>


I'm not sure I agree with you.  I think there are advantages in using
methods of training which the horse can understand, and relate to.  Call
this Natural Horsemanship, call it Herd Dynamics, call it Boiled Cabbage if
you want to : it comes down to communication between human and animal, and
as soon as you introduce the human into the equation, you kind of stuff up
the whole idea of a "herd" as nature defines it, don't you?  It is, if
anything, an artificial herd.


>BTW, there really isn't opportunity for stallion squabbles because of
inserting yourself into the herd as alpha....9 times out of ten the alpha in
a herd is a matriarchal mare and she controls the herd by directing their
movements...not by outfighting them.>

Doesn't Mark Rashid give this mare a name other than Alpha?  From memory, he
said that the alpha was basically a big bully, and that the true herd leader
displayed none of the characteristics usually associated with "alphas".  I
may be wrong, it's been a while, but I vaguely recall a discussion of this
in one of his books...?


>That is what makes roundpenning work...the natural tendancy for a horse to
assume a submissive herd role when another herd member is
confidently/successfully controlling where they move.  >

You're assuming all horses find it natural to assume such a submissive role.
I'm coming from a POV where not all horses find this natural, and for them,
round-penning won't work.


Tracey