Re: RC: RE: RE: RE: Karahty (and Bloodlines in Arabs)

[Bette Lamore <woa@stormnet.com>]

Hi Kathy
I have to agree with you in that an athlete is an athlete whether he
wins at stock, cutting, jumping, hunter-over-fences, or racing--flat or
endurance---AND if he happens to be beautiful and win halter and his
"kids" win Get of Sire for him, what a BONUS! You can have it all;
however, the reason most stallion owners do not advertise in magazines
for endurance is that the prices are so low. Endurance riders
traditionally want to pay less for a prospect than the cost of the food
to feed the horse to reach the stage that he/she is rideable ($3500) let
alone any compensation for all the love and labor involved in the
process. I realize most riders do not want to hear this and that perhaps
I am offending some, and for that I apologize, but someone has to tell
you what is happening in this market.
Most of the top performance breeders I know of will not only fail to
market for endurance, but also have very little patience for the low
ball prices offered them for same. I don't come from a "sour grapes"
place. If you visit my web site you will see that the quality of my
stallion is recognized by 2 many-time World Champions as well as Donna
Snyder-Smith. I promoted Hal is this market at the urging of Donna who
felt that prices would eventually come up to a REASONABLE range (not
exorbitant) but when the current president of AERC told me he didn't see
that happening any time in the near future and that he has stopped
breeding due to the fact he can pick up horses at less than the cost it
takes him to raise them, it is definitely a discouragement to those in
quality breeding. I myself stopped breeding for sales 3 years ago. 
Those that encourage looking at proven bloodlines in selecting a
prospect would be well advised to also encourage paying a price for said
prospect that would enable a breeder to continue breeding quality
athletes.
I've called those of us still in the breeding end, Patrons of the Arts.
Unless we are in the Michael Byatt (it's been so long I forgot his
spelling)/Boggs/Gallun crowd, we are for the most part forced for the
most part to have other income to supplement our addiction to Arabians.
I do still offer breedings to my boy, but simply can no longer continue
to raise his offspring simply to take a financial loss on them, despite
the fact that I LOVE seeing them in homes where they have fresh air,
lots of trails, and some of the best nutritional/medical care (not to
mention close companionship) I've seen in endurance.
So much for my soapbox; it is just that every time I hear about
bloodlines and why certain ones are not seen in endurance, I feel
compelled to stick up for the stallion owners. We can be a much maligned
group, as seen here lately with the posts.
Bette
Bette Lamore
Whispering Oaks Arabians, Home of TLA Halynov
http://www.stormnet.com/~woa
I've learned that life is like a roll of toilet paper, the closer it
gets to the end, the faster it goes. Smell the roses!


Kathy Mayeda wrote:
> 
> My point is the stallions listed as being top sires in the database are also
> top sires of MOST North American bred arabs, whether they are bred for
> endurance, show, pleasure, or whatever.  My horses were not bred for
> specifically bred for endurance, they are domestic bred for halter.  But
> they still claim those very same stallions in their pedigrees many
> generations removed.  And my horses are not the ideal body type for
> endurance because of their halter breeding (weak loins) - BUT THEY STILL
> HAVE THOSE SAME ANCESTORS!
> 
> Sure, you could hedge your bets on a more modern stallion that is proven for
> endurance.  I have no quarrel with that.  But to base a study to say that
> all Arabs descending from Raffles (I'm just throwing out a name), because he
> has so many get that are registered in the endurance registry, would be good
> endurance prospects would be ludicrous.  So do you really think you are
> making an intelligent decision?  I think that a wiser choice would be to buy
> from a breeder who has a successful program in nuturing and training
> endurance prospects along with long-term selective breeding, rather than to
> buy a horse because he has ten lines to whoever.
> 
> I haven't bothered to check actual numbers of breeders who breed
> specifically for endurance, but based on dollars spent on advertising
> stallions, the endurance market is a very small percentage of the Arabian
> market as a whole.  Just pick up a copy of Arabian Horse World and see how
> many stallions are advertised for their endurance get.  Look at the number
> of stallions advertised there, the dollar amount they spend for their
> advertising, and then compare it to Endurance News.  And keep in mind that
> the bloodlines shown in Arabian Horse World might be imported and therefore
> popular for the moment, but Raffles was popular for the moment in his day -
> and breeders back then were not breeding specifically for endurance.  And
> then the breeders have horses to sell that don't quite make the grade in the
> halter world, racing, or show ring for various reasons.  So what becomes of
> them?  Pets, trail horses, performance horses, feedlot  prospects and
> pasture ornaments.  Or maybe endurance or race horses.  Or there are a few
> horses that were successful at halter to go onto endurance, like Remington
> Steele.
> 
> Give me a break....
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:   Webmaster [mailto:webmaster@endurancehorses.com]
> Sent:   Thursday, April 20, 2000 5:13 PM
> To:     Kathy Mayeda; CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com; bobmorris@rmci.net;
> katswig@earthlink.net
> Cc:     ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject:        RE: RE: RE: Karahty (and Bloodlines in Arabs)
> 
> <...what does it really mean?>
> 
> It means that there is a need within the endurance community to educate
> ourselves about our horses so that we don't have to make statements like
> yours.  So that we might utter a sentence in regards to breeding that didn't
> include the words, "...I think...that might...who probably."  I would much
> rather be able to make an intelligent decision about a prospective horse
> based on empirical evidence than take tours of feed lots hoping to find
> another Red.
> 
> Let me make myself very clear that in no way do I think that this tiny
> project comes close to the aforementioned empirical evidence; this whole
> project was done simply as food for thought.
> 
> Our main focus was to raise the awareness that we need to do a better job of
> utilizing the data assets that our sanctioning organizations maintain.  That
> data and the data maintained by the breed organizations is the key to
> understanding the successful breeding that actually produced an endurance
> performer.  We should never slip into the complacency of just not being
> bothering with it all.
> 
> Salim Nice
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:   Kathy Mayeda [mailto:kathy_mayeda@atce.com]
> Sent:   Thursday, April 20, 2000 4:10 PM
> To:     CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com; bobmorris@rmci.net; katswig@earthlink.net
> Cc:     ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject:        RC:  RE: RE: Karahty (and Bloodlines in Arabs)
> 
> All this is very interesting statistically, but I think that there are many
> modern stallions out there that might produce excellent endurance mounts but
> never get into the endurance registries because their get are primarily used
> for performance, pleasure, show, pasture ornaments, or breeding for
> breeding's sake.   Since we are seeing a lot of successful endurance horses
> being rescued from feedlots, who probably have a good lick of all these
> stallions listed in their pedigree, what does it really mean to us?
> 
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