Re: Carbos and eating crow

[rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)]

Susan,
You commented in your first post on this subject that carbo-loading could
increase the chances of tying up.  I have started always cutting my
horse's grain in half on the day I haul to a race, after experiencing a
cramp/probably mild tie-up with a horse (not Kaboot thank goodness.)  I
think he did tie up, because he tied up not too long after that, and
became prone to it. (4 incidence).  I felt that the hauling time in the
trailer was much like being kept in a stall.  Even though I had warmed
the horse up by walking over 20 minutes, and then went out and trotted
hard for awhile, he still tied up.

Now, if the reason we cut grain is the carbos in it, why on earth would
we carbo-load before the race?  I'm afraid a possible/ hard to measure
fluctuation in insulin, etc. is not going to make me risk something as
devastating to a horse's career as azoturia.  

Am I totally in left field here?  Where on earth do our horses get that
"2nd wind" that seems to come on at the 80 mile mark, assuming that we
are not using these carbos?

Angie & Kaboot (does it taste better than oil?)


On Mon, 22 Jun 1998 18:01:12 -0700 Susan Evans Garlinghouse
<suendavid@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>Debbyly@aol.com wrote:
>> 
>> I would be interested to know if the research about the glucose 
>spikes and
>> insulin response have been done in exercising horses, horses that 
>have already
>> been exercising for quite a while and that will continue exercising. 
> I would
>> suspect that the research has been done on horses at rest.
>
>Research has been done every which way but loose---since the advent of
>the high speed treadmill, it's alot easier to get repeatable exercise
>trials (which doesn't sound like a big thing but it is---think about 
>how
>hard, if not impossible, it would be for you to go out tomorrow and do
>EXACTLY the same conditioning regimen you did today, down to the last
>foot.  Can't be done in the field, much easier on a treadmill, so you
>know differences in performance are due to something OTHER than 
>changes
>in the exercise program).
>
>However, one thing I've noticed in the research is that horses
>undergoing "endurance type exercise" don't exercise for nearly what
>anyone here on ridecamp would consider even a breeze in the park.  A
>typical "endurance" workout on a treadmill might be only a few miles
>long, and my personal opinion is that there are energetic pathways 
>that
>don't get cooking until much later---and may not occur at all in a 
>horse
>that is less than true endurance-fit (by OUR definition).
>
>But anyway, to answer your question, yes, research has been done 
>during
>exercise, but there are still tons of variables that are going to 
>affect
>insulin and glucose levels, mostly having to do with intensity and
>duration of exercise, also feeding schedules and type of feeds 
>ingested.
>
>I've been unable to find anything in the literature so far on use of a
>carbo-loader for use as a blood-glucose-maintainer, and certainly
>nothing under endurance conditions---at least not in horses.  Human 
>data
>is highly suggestive, but horses do have different energy sources that
>humans don't, and the reliance on glucose isn't QUITE the same between
>humans and horses.  Still, reading the human literature helps find a
>direction to point for, though.
>
>
>  In people the
>> glucose spikes and insulin response do not happen if the carbos are 
>taken
>> during exercise.
>
>Weeeeelllll, I don't profess to be a human exercise physiologist...but
>in horses, insulin is a response to excess glucose---so I shy away 
>from
>"does not happen".  Under some circumstances, sure it can.
>
>  I know nothing about fluid shifts.
>
>If you're interested in getting the information from the source (very
>interesting reading), check out "Feeding and Digestive Problems in
>Horses---Physiologic Response to a Concentrated Meal" in Veterinary
>Clinics of North America: Equine Practice--volume 6, No. 2, August 
>1990.
>
>Tons of really illuminating information on fluid shifts, gut motility
>patterns, and endocrinology in response to a meal.
>
>
> 
>> Maybe one of you scientists out there would consider this as a 
>research
>> project.
>
>The planning meeting is, in fact, tomorrow morning.
>
>
>
>
>  Endurance rides would provide a unique research set up.  I am sure
>> that many endurance riders would be willing to have blood drawn on 
>their
>> horses during rides to further this kind of research.
>
>Ah ha.  Already got a list of brave volunteers to drag onto the Cal 
>Poly
>treadmill, stay tuned for the next thrilling installment.
>
>
>Susan Garlinghouse
>
>

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