Re: Rice Bran

["Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>]

Which means that the numbers I gave in my example could actually be worse. I am aware of the variability which is why I don't like to see marginal ratios (unless based on actual tested values). Yes, feeding calcium carbonate solves the problem. My problem is the feed salesman said there wasn't any problem. The example proves otherwise. The variability you mention makes the potential worse.

Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
To: Duncan Fletcher <dfletche@gte.net>; ridecamp@endurance.net <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Date: Wednesday, June 17, 1998 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: Rice Bran


>All the below is true enough, but NRC values aren't exact and vary
>somewhat, so even in "balanced" grass species like bermuda, you can and
>will get higher phosphorus levels and lower calcium levels than what's
>listed in feed tables.  Just because I got extra credit for it, managed
>to weasel out a nephew's Science Fair project and am pathetically easy
>to amuse, I measured calcium and phosphorus levels in eight different
>batches of bermuda hay I brought in this season and got levels that
>statistically varied from what's in the NRC.  Some had a balanced ca-p
>ratio, others didn't.
>
>If I happen to have a bale of alfalfa around for a boarder, I'll throw a
>handful at my guys if I feel like it.  Otherwise, even if I weren't
>feeding beet pulp, and thereby balancing out any inversions THAT way, I
>just have a bag of ground limestone dumped in one corner.  If they want
>it, fine.  If they don't, fine.  I don't lose sleep either way.
>
>Personally, I don't particularly like or feed rice bran, but a pound
>isn't going to get me too wound up, as I think Truman feeds it---it's
>folks that are feeding four to six pounds a day that I think are getting
>into potential trouble.
>
>Just my opinion, of course, your mileage may vary. :-)
>
>Susan Garlinghouse
>
>Duncan Fletcher wrote:
>> 
>> It isn't just a little bit of phosphorous and it can make a big difference.
>> 
>> Diet Example:
>> 
>> 17 lb coastal bermudagrass
>> 3.5 lb oats
>> DE: 19.0 Mcal
>> Ca/P: 1.26
>> 
>> Substitute 1 lb extruded rice bran for 1.5 lb oats:
>> DE: 19.2 Mcal
>> Ca/P: 0.92
>> 
>> For moderate calcium forages such as timothy, this will generally not be a problem, and certainly will not be a problem with high calcium forages like alfalfa. But with grasses like brome, canarygrass, fescue, bahiagrass and bermudagrass it can be a problem and with grasses like orchardgrass and bluegrass which start with an inverted Ca/P, almost any concentrate is a problem. I won't feed straight orchardgrass - only in combination with alfalfa.
>> 
>> Duncan Fletcher
>> dfletche@gte.net
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Truman Prevatt <truman.prevatt@netsrq.com>
>> To: ridecamp@endurance.net <ridecamp@endurance.net>
>> Cc: suendavid@worldnet.att.net <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
>> Date: Monday, June 15, 1998 12:14 PM
>> Subject: Re: Rice Bran
>> 
>> I was talking to the Senminole feeds nutritionist about this issue.  Senminole
>> makes an extruded rice brand supplement which is a) easy to feed and b) the horses
>> like it.  It doesn't have any added Ca to balance the P.  He told me that they
>> Senminole is working on a balanced version to be released in the near future. They
>> are trying to work out the problems with extruding the Calcium carboniate.
>> 
>> He also said that if one had otherwise a balanced diet, then the small total
>> amounts of extra P in the rice brand supplement fed would do very little to upset
>> this balance.  He went on to say that since grass and hay are the biggest (or
>> should be) portions of the horses's diet, that the balance of of the grass and hay
>> should be the main concern.  His bigger concern was the high concentration of P
>> and low concentration of Ca in the FL grasses.  He suggested year round free
>> choice Ca supplement for FL horses.
>> 
>> Susan, how does stack up to your experience?
>> 
>> I did try EquiJewel, which is a Ca balance rice bran, but the horse's just didn't
>> like it.
>> 
>> Susan Evans Garlinghouse wrote:
>> 
>> > It's that high phosphorus from the bran that messes up the calcium
>> > stores.  If the calcium-phosphorus ratio is inverted (more phosphorus
>> > than calcium), calcium gets mobilized from the bone (that "drawing from
>> > the bones" your vet mentioned)---if despite high phosphorus levels, the
>> > calcium-phosphorus ratio is still balanced, than it won't affect the
>> > calcium stores.  But then you still probably have an excess of both
>> > calcium AND phosphorus, which also isn't good.  And, as Tom says, the
>> > excess phosphorus will tie up the absorption of other nutrients (mostly
>> > minerals).
>> >
>> > Susan Garlinghouse
>> 
>> --
>> Truman Prevatt
>> Brooksville, FL
>> 
>> Mystic “The Horse from Hell” Storm
>> Rocket a.k.a. Mr. Misty
>> Jordy a.k.a. Bridger (when he is good)
>> Danson Flame