training/tranquilizers

["Lysane Cree" <cree_l@LSA.Lan.McGill.CA>]

Wow! Thanks for all the responses to my questions. I am now a happy 
camper! :) I found the responses to my "weekends only conditioning" 
question very helpful and I will certainly put it to use. For those of you 
who were concerned about using a tranquilizer to shoe, I can maybe 
answer some of your concerns: 
-I agree with all of you I think on the issue of tranquilizers and my 
attitude is to use the least amount of drugs and other goodies on my 
horse as possible. The thing I want the most is to not have to 
tranquilize him to shoe him in back.
-I have been working hard and consistently at getting him to pick up 
his hind feet, it is just a long slow process because we are equally 
stubborn (I prefer "determined") - he is determined to not let me 
pick his legs up and hold them up and I am determined to get him to
let me do this. So it has pretty much been a process of baby steps - I have 
so far managed to get him to hold them up for a few seconds, which is 
quite an improvement from when I started. I try to work on this 
whenever I am grooming him or before/after sadddling up and when I 
get back to the barn after a ride.
-the vet originally suggested I give Buck some bute for a couple of 
days before shoeing to get rid of any achiness or stiffness he might 
have due to bone jacks in his hocks (he has never been lame though). 
I did this and ended up with a horse who was probably feeling better 
than he had in awhile (if there was in fact some achiness in his 
joints) and who was even more determined to put his foot down 
(almost on top of the farrier's foot, too!). We did try a twitch too, 
but he just got pissed off and fought more trying to get it off.
-the vet's next suggestion was to use the minimum amount of 
tranquilizer necessary to relax him enough so that he would not 
object to having his hind legs picked up.
-The farrier and vet know each other well. The vet was present the 
first time we tried to shoe Buck and he is the one who recommended 
the type of tranquilizer  and the proper dose. It is the vet who had 
in the past shown the farrier how give injections. And we would never 
change the type or dose without consulting the vet first. I thought 
that vets could do this (teach someone how to give injections), no?
-I don't know if this would be considered chronic usage (?) - once 
every 10 weeks or so since his feet don't grow very fast.
-Buck is no problem for shoeing in the front and his a pleasure to 
work with generally. He doesn't react in a nasty way either when you try 
to pick up his hind legs - no ears laid back, no kicking or attempt 
at kicking. I have had to clean his hind hooves out by waiting until 
he rests a leg and the bottom of the hoof is off of the ground (such 
as when he's on the cross ties) and picking them out that way, and  
he doesn't have an objection to that either. 
He has no problem with being poked at anywhere on his 
hindquarters or anywhere else on his body and you can feel his back 
legs all over, rub your hands down them, tap on his hoofs, 
whatever,...as long as you don't try to pick up his hind legs. If you 
do try, he just forces his weight down and pulls his leg downward,
so you can't possibly hold it up. He reacts more strongly with the 
leg that has some old scars on it (from before I got him), which is probably
 normal.
-I think Buck's reaction is more psychological than physical. If it was 
physical, wouldn't he be sore after the farrier manipulated his legs 
to shoe him? And I am determined to keep working on this. How long it 
will take though, I am not sure. And if I do want to attend the ride 
in June, I will have to shoe him. Which was why my question came up.    
-If anyone knows which Lyons video deals with this kind of thing (or Susan, 
if you have a chance to check out your videos), please let me know. 
Thanks again to all of you,
Lysane and Buck