______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Gut sounds
Author: "Susan F. Evans" <suendavid@worldnet.att.net> at SMTP
Date: 12/12/96 1:15 PM
Hi Phil,
I'm a little at a loss to understand how you managed to deduce from my
post re probiotics that I am trying to "mask" the
physiological status of my horse, am being conned, am deluding myself or
am endangering my horse. I agree that dehydration and shunting of blood
away from the gut is a major contributor in diminished motility, I never
said that they weren't. However, fermenting feed will produce excessive
gas in the gut if it doesn't keep moving---such as if motility is
diminished through blood shunting during stressful exercise, or am I
incorrect? Since it is bacteria in the hindgut that is responsible for
the breakdown of fiber and to some extent carbohydrates, would you not
agree that increased bacterial populations would contribute to digestive
efficiency? Therefore, a gut that breaks down feed more efficiently
during stressful activity I would think is less likely to have problems
with excessive gas, and last I checked, gas in the gut around here is
called "colic".
I never said that probiotics will maintain gut integrity all by itself
despite other contributory causes, even though "gut sounds" was the
general topic at hand. Please excuse me for not being more exacting in
my wording. My only point was that IMHO, probiotics increase feed
efficiency and I think that is a good thing for a horse, before, during
or after a ride. The several dozen research articles published on it
over the past twenty years which I believe pretty strongly support the
benefits of probiotics in a variety of situations, so please exxcuse me
if I do not feel that I am being "conned" or am "deluding" myself. If
you haven't seen the research, I'd be happy to send you the references.
Phil, I never claim to be the last word on anything and I am more than
willing and happy to discuss any subject and learn from it, especially
if I have, in fact, misunderstood or misinterpreted what I have been
taught. However, would you not agree that we are all better served by
discussing the topic in a non-accusatory manner, rather than leaping to
conclusions and assuming that I am purposely trying to endanger my horse
and "mask" the signs of stress simply to get "A's" on my vet card? (For
that matter, I don't think the vets are that dumb---it takes more than a
noisy gut to get all "A's", or at least it sure does around here.)
If you're looking for a snowstorm, Phil, open a window. I live in
California because I prefer the sun.
Susan Evans
Equine Research Center
California State Polytechnic University
Phil Woods wrote:
>
> Gut sounds become reduced during a ride, in large part, because of
> dehydration, redistribution of body fluids and alterations in body
> electrolyte concentrations, not because the horse has a deficiency of
> bugs. Adding bugs to the horse may make its gurgling sounds a tad
> louder (although I doubt it), but will not improve gastrointestinal
> motility or the general clinical picture, ie it is a con to think that
> you are improving matters or helping the horse. So if you are giving
> probiotics or what-ever merely to get an "A" on gut sounds, I feel
> that you are deluding yourself, potentially putting the horse in
> danger by trying to mask a lack of gastrointestinal motility, and
> effectively using a substance (probiotics) in an attempt to mask the
> underlying real status of the horse's gastrointestinal sounds and
> hence physiological status of the horse as it proceeds through the
> ride ("Cosequin riders"!!!!).
>
> I await the snowstorm.
>
> Phil Woods.
>
> ______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
> Subject: Re: Gut sounds
> Author: "Susan F. Evans" <suendavid@worldnet.att.net> at SMTP
> Date: 12/12/96 9:22 AM
>
> Joyce Kellenberger wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > How do you get a horse to get better gut sounds?
> > > Kris
> > We tried probiotics in a paste form at vet checks and that seemed
> > to help (for the next vet check.) I now feed my horses ABC probiotic
> > supplement a week before the ride, the paste during the ride, and the
> > supplement again for a week after. May be overkill, but it has helped a
> > lot.
>
>
> Hi,
> I've been a big fan of probiotics for about ten years now, back before
> they were on the market for horses but were being commonly fed to dairy
> cattle and feeder pigs. I've always thought they helped with keeping a
> gut happy, because they increase the population of "bugs" in the gut.
> Since stress contributes to killing off the little bugs that carry out
> digestion and keep the mail moving, so to speak, it only makes sense
> that starting a race with as many bugs as possible is going to help keep
> the gut moving and working.
>
> Also, I've noticed my horses recover from a ride much better when they
> get probiotics afterwards (actually, I feed it continually, but more so
> after a ride). Again, since stress of any kind like racing, trailering,
> antibiotics, foaling, disease, whatever can knock down the bug
> population, it makes sense to keep the bugs happy by replenishing the
> supply.
>
> Just my two cents.
>
> Susan Evans
>