Ridecamp: RE: Fw: [RC] 3 day 150 mi. Rides

I think the part's bob is refering to are at:

  http://www.aerc.org/documents/adminmanual/SANTCHTR.pdf
and
  http://www.aerc.org/documents/adminmanual/SANCTPRO.pdf

The other two (later and non-board approved) versions of the information are
at:

  http://www.aerc.org/documents/adminManual.html#Section_28

johnt (the librarian too...!! next i'll be accused of censorship!!!)

-----Original Message-----
From: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Bob Morris
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:07 PM
To: steph@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Karen; ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Fw: [RC] 3 day 150 mi. Rides


OK Steph:

Which AERC Administrative Procedures manual? Only one set of
Procedures were ever approved by the BoD and that was the
set I wrote in 1995. There was nothing like what you refer
to in them.

Now, if the guide line for consideration of Special Event
rides requires there be only one such ride taking place in
the same time frame throughout all AERC regions and there be
at least two weeks between the starting dates of any two
such events, then there will be only 26 special events in
the nation each year! Is this what the membership desires or
is it what certain Ride Promoters want?

Realize also this rule includes 150 mile rides done in 36
hours. What about them? Are they also special events?

To often the BoD acts in haste and regrets at leisure. How
many times in the past 25 years? I have lost count.

Remember as well A RULE THAT CAN BE CIRCUMVENTED IS NOT A
RULE, AND A RULE THAT HAS NO PENALTY IS NOT A RULE.

Bob

Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID

-----Original Message-----
From: Steph Teeter [mailto:steph@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:02 PM
To: Bob Morris; Karen; ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Fw: [RC] 3 day 150 mi. Rides


In the AERC Administrative Procedures manual, there is a
paragraph regarding
sanctioning of Special Events which states "The guideline
for consideration
of Special Event rides requires there be only one such ride
taking place in
the same time frame throughout all AERC regions and there be
at least two
weeks between the starting dates of any two such events".

This is a policy - a guideline- not a rule, but probably
shouldn't be
ignored. Are policies not valid? They can certainly be
changed easily by a
BOD vote, but do we disregard anything that governs AERC
events that isn't
in the Rules? The whole arena of sanctioning rides is based
ONLY upon
policy. There are no rules to determine which rides a
sanctioning director
will approve.

One of the problems I have with passing the motion to
include 3 day rides as
Special Events rides is that this policy issue not been
addressed. And the
effect on the regional rides and ride calendar is therefore
uncertain. Do we
grandfather in all 3-day rides which have already been
sanctioned,
regardless of this policy? Do we deny new 3-day ride
sanction requests
because of this policy? Do we allow only the oldest multiple
day rides to
exist in any 2-week time frame, and ask the others to change
to 2-day rides?
Do we change the Special Sanction policy to only apply to 4
or 5 day rides?

I don't think it's a good idea to change a rule, when there
are unanswered
questions regarding existing policy, and therefore
unforeseen consequences
to riders and ride managers.

Steph


-----Original Message-----
From: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Bob
Morris
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 4:05 PM
To: Karen; ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Fw: [RC] 3 day 150 mi. Rides


The statement <<<Special sanctioning allows for no rides to
be held within 2 weeks of each other if they are special
event rides, regardless of
distance.>>> has no basis in the AERC Rules and Regulations.
Just where is this stipulation to be found? If it is not
with in the purview of the persons asking for sanctioning
(i.e. the membership) then it cannot be a valid restraint.

Bob

Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID

-----Original Message-----
From: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Karen
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 3:58 PM
To: ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Fw: [RC] 3 day 150 mi. Rides



>.....and precisely WHY would these rides be axed?  Is there
some reason
>why they would not receive Board approval?

That is why I am asking.  If these rides, many of them, have
been going on
for years and years then I don't see the reason to change.
If it ain't
broke..... (and, who wants the change here anyway, is it the
riders who are
in the Pioneer Standings asking for it?)

>   First of all, those rides are existing rides, and hence
>could be approved by the special sanctioning director,
given 180 days
>notice, without board approval.  Any such ride would only
need board
>approval for its first two years.  Second, such a ruling
would not take
>effect until the new ride season, and could not conceivably
be made to
>apply to any ride that is already sanctioned.

Again, I am asking so I know how the rule will be applied.
The aerc
website shows that it would be effective December 2002.  So,
I would like
an answer from somebody that is a BOD member so I know how
it is
applied.  Riders have a right to know in advance so we can
voice our
opinions.

>I have no particular opinion as to whether or not this
would be a good
>rule, although it would seem fair that all of the Pioneer
rides be
>administered under the same set of rules.  However, I sure
can't see where
>all the hysteria is coming from...

Because the riders don't want to lose their choices of which
rides they can
go to.  Special sanctioning allows for no rides to be held
within 2 weeks
of each other if they are special event rides, regardless of
distance.  This could effectively wipe out several of these
rides.  This
concerns me, as I do go to a lot of these rides and I just
want to know the
entire story.  How will this affect me in real life.  I
would hope that the
BOD, even if this rule is passed, would still allow a ride
in California to
be sanctioned during the same week as another special event
ride say in New
Mexico, or Washington or Kentucky.

Karen
West Region



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