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    RE: Fw: [RC] 3 day 150 mi. Rides - John A. Teeter


    I think the part's bob is refering to are at:
    
      http://www.aerc.org/documents/adminmanual/SANTCHTR.pdf
    and
      http://www.aerc.org/documents/adminmanual/SANCTPRO.pdf
    
    The other two (later and non-board approved) versions of the information are
    at:
    
      http://www.aerc.org/documents/adminManual.html#Section_28
    
    johnt (the librarian too...!! next i'll be accused of censorship!!!)
    
    -----Original Message-----
    From: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    [mailto:ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Bob Morris
    Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:07 PM
    To: steph@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Karen; ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: RE: Fw: [RC] 3 day 150 mi. Rides
    
    
    OK Steph:
    
    Which AERC Administrative Procedures manual? Only one set of
    Procedures were ever approved by the BoD and that was the
    set I wrote in 1995. There was nothing like what you refer
    to in them.
    
    Now, if the guide line for consideration of Special Event
    rides requires there be only one such ride taking place in
    the same time frame throughout all AERC regions and there be
    at least two weeks between the starting dates of any two
    such events, then there will be only 26 special events in
    the nation each year! Is this what the membership desires or
    is it what certain Ride Promoters want?
    
    Realize also this rule includes 150 mile rides done in 36
    hours. What about them? Are they also special events?
    
    To often the BoD acts in haste and regrets at leisure. How
    many times in the past 25 years? I have lost count.
    
    Remember as well A RULE THAT CAN BE CIRCUMVENTED IS NOT A
    RULE, AND A RULE THAT HAS NO PENALTY IS NOT A RULE.
    
    Bob
    
    Bob Morris
    Morris Endurance Enterprises
    Boise, ID
    
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Steph Teeter [mailto:steph@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
    Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:02 PM
    To: Bob Morris; Karen; ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: RE: Fw: [RC] 3 day 150 mi. Rides
    
    
    In the AERC Administrative Procedures manual, there is a
    paragraph regarding
    sanctioning of Special Events which states "The guideline
    for consideration
    of Special Event rides requires there be only one such ride
    taking place in
    the same time frame throughout all AERC regions and there be
    at least two
    weeks between the starting dates of any two such events".
    
    This is a policy - a guideline- not a rule, but probably
    shouldn't be
    ignored. Are policies not valid? They can certainly be
    changed easily by a
    BOD vote, but do we disregard anything that governs AERC
    events that isn't
    in the Rules? The whole arena of sanctioning rides is based
    ONLY upon
    policy. There are no rules to determine which rides a
    sanctioning director
    will approve.
    
    One of the problems I have with passing the motion to
    include 3 day rides as
    Special Events rides is that this policy issue not been
    addressed. And the
    effect on the regional rides and ride calendar is therefore
    uncertain. Do we
    grandfather in all 3-day rides which have already been
    sanctioned,
    regardless of this policy? Do we deny new 3-day ride
    sanction requests
    because of this policy? Do we allow only the oldest multiple
    day rides to
    exist in any 2-week time frame, and ask the others to change
    to 2-day rides?
    Do we change the Special Sanction policy to only apply to 4
    or 5 day rides?
    
    I don't think it's a good idea to change a rule, when there
    are unanswered
    questions regarding existing policy, and therefore
    unforeseen consequences
    to riders and ride managers.
    
    Steph
    
    
    -----Original Message-----
    From: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    [mailto:ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Bob
    Morris
    Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 4:05 PM
    To: Karen; ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: RE: Fw: [RC] 3 day 150 mi. Rides
    
    
    The statement <<<Special sanctioning allows for no rides to
    be held within 2 weeks of each other if they are special
    event rides, regardless of
    distance.>>> has no basis in the AERC Rules and Regulations.
    Just where is this stipulation to be found? If it is not
    with in the purview of the persons asking for sanctioning
    (i.e. the membership) then it cannot be a valid restraint.
    
    Bob
    
    Bob Morris
    Morris Endurance Enterprises
    Boise, ID
    
    -----Original Message-----
    From: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    [mailto:ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Karen
    Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 3:58 PM
    To: ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Subject: Re: Fw: [RC] 3 day 150 mi. Rides
    
    
    
    >.....and precisely WHY would these rides be axed?  Is there
    some reason
    >why they would not receive Board approval?
    
    That is why I am asking.  If these rides, many of them, have
    been going on
    for years and years then I don't see the reason to change.
    If it ain't
    broke..... (and, who wants the change here anyway, is it the
    riders who are
    in the Pioneer Standings asking for it?)
    
    >   First of all, those rides are existing rides, and hence
    >could be approved by the special sanctioning director,
    given 180 days
    >notice, without board approval.  Any such ride would only
    need board
    >approval for its first two years.  Second, such a ruling
    would not take
    >effect until the new ride season, and could not conceivably
    be made to
    >apply to any ride that is already sanctioned.
    
    Again, I am asking so I know how the rule will be applied.
    The aerc
    website shows that it would be effective December 2002.  So,
    I would like
    an answer from somebody that is a BOD member so I know how
    it is
    applied.  Riders have a right to know in advance so we can
    voice our
    opinions.
    
    >I have no particular opinion as to whether or not this
    would be a good
    >rule, although it would seem fair that all of the Pioneer
    rides be
    >administered under the same set of rules.  However, I sure
    can't see where
    >all the hysteria is coming from...
    
    Because the riders don't want to lose their choices of which
    rides they can
    go to.  Special sanctioning allows for no rides to be held
    within 2 weeks
    of each other if they are special event rides, regardless of
    distance.  This could effectively wipe out several of these
    rides.  This
    concerns me, as I do go to a lot of these rides and I just
    want to know the
    entire story.  How will this affect me in real life.  I
    would hope that the
    BOD, even if this rule is passed, would still allow a ride
    in California to
    be sanctioned during the same week as another special event
    ride say in New
    Mexico, or Washington or Kentucky.
    
    Karen
    West Region
    
    
    
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    RE: Fw: [RC] 3 day 150 mi. Rides, Bob Morris