Re: The Bet

[CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com]

OK, folks--here's the status of the bet at the moment.  I was asked to forward the following post to ridecamp from Cliff [written in response to a post from Tom declaring that he would respond ONLY to Cliff, and not to me as any sort of representative of Cliff]:

Subj:   Re: The Bet 
Date:   Tue, 12 Jun 2001 9:38:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time 
From:   GrandPaws@cs.com 
To:   Tivers 
CC:   CMKSAGEHIL 
 

Tom,

I have been tied up with the process of relocating my residence.  

The deadlines set for the bet have come and gone, yet not one shred of
evidence has been provided.  Ill let my bet ride for a few more days.  I see
no problem in letting Hiedis attorney hold the funds in his escrow account. 
Where are your funds?  It is not my interest to discredit or shame anyone, Im
just interested in the facts, and the betterment of conditioned endurance
horses.

If your theories and products work, Ill use them. There are lots of smoke and
mirrors in this world, can you prove what you say?

An impartial judge should not be hard to come by.  Lets get to the point and
get back to riding down the trail again.  

Cliff
<end forward>
 
I've also received two lengthy posts from Tom--once again, I'll spare you the majority of the invective, unless he chooses to forward the posts in their entirety to RC (once again, RC was listed as a recipient, but apparently Tom is no longer subscribed), but here is the general picture.

After a great deal of colorful language in which Becky Huffman, Kathy Mayeda, Darolyn Butler-Dial and myself are collectively characterized as "witches" and "bitches" (as well as a few choice comments about us individually), Tom goes on to say:

<Stupidity and character assassination still rules on Ridecamp. I'll leave you
to swim in your own sewer.>

I am still puzzled as to what this has to do with trying to ascertain what has actually happened in East Texas, but I'll leave that to each reader to decide.  I also find it a fascinating study in pathological behavior that the author apparently does not see any contradiction between the quoted sentence and his previous statements regarding the four of us.

Tom also spends a great deal of verbiage talking about "innocent until proven guilty" in a court of law.  I hate to disillusion him, but first of all, in court, it is the "presumption" of innocence until one is proven guilty that is the rule--one is not automatically "innocent" unless proven guilty.  Minor semantic difference, mayhaps, but one that is fraught with meaning.  Secondly, this is not a court of law--it is an informational forum.  No one is trying to prove or disprove guilt or innocence here, or pass sentence or judgment.  However, several here would like to know if they are being duped or not--from what I gather by private posts on this issue, which have been 100% in favor of getting to the bottom of this mess.  Folks on this list care what happens to their horses, and they are interested in techniques and products and ideas which are valid and have merit.  Michelle summed up this whole issue very well in her post regarding why we want to know the truth.  Each read!
er will take away whatever he or
 she will from the facts, if and when they are ever presented.

One sentence stands out in Tom's second post:

[addressing Cliff and me] <Bill has fellow riders lined up to testify in his behalf,
but I'm sure that they will not represent evidence to you either. >

Then WHERE ARE THEY, TOM???  To date, NOT ONE person has come forward to corroborate Bill's and Tom's story.  Tom promised to produce these very witnesses if someone would put up $1000, for me to hold.  Tom likewise promised to match the bet.  Cliff put up the money.  To date--Tom has neither produced his money, nor the witnesses--he simply continues to clambor that they exist, and that we are all being nasty for wanting to know.  Truly, Tom, we are not hard to convince.  If even ONE person would say, "I vetted the ride" or "I rode with Bill" or "The ride was held on my place" or ANY such verifiable information, that would be the end of it.  I find this even more intriguing, since the horse world does not exist in a vacuum, and since there are a fair number of endurance riders in East Texas who have no clue about ANY endurance activity there other than a few AERC rides.  Example--I only recently moved back to central Idaho.  There is a group here that for several years put on !
a 20+ mile mule race and called 
it an endurance ride.  I don't even know the people who put it on, and it is/was not affiliated with AERC.  Nonetheless, I have had SEVERAL people ask me about it, simply because they know I am an endurance rider, and because it was called an endurance event.  I could no more NOT know that at least the event existed and live here than I could live without breathing.  The same is likely true in East Texas.  Yet NOT ONE person has so much as HEARD of these rides.  Fascinating.  Not conclusive, but fascinating.

As for Edie's offer:  Yes, Edie, I for one would LOVE to see an independent arbiter find out what can be found out locally.  I don't have time for this game, but I WOULD like ridecampers to have the opportunity to know what is actually going on here--whichever way happens to be the truth!  Any light you can shed on the subject would be appreciated by many, I'm sure.

And Cliff:  I WOULD like an end to this before TOO long.  What say that the third time's a charm as far as setting deadlines, and that if Tom has not put up or shut up by the end of the week, my attorney can send you your money back??  Or mayhaps Edie can shed some light on it before then as well.

Heidi