Re: Re: Fw: RC: endurance prospect, etc.

["Whitney Bass" <bass@bigsky.net>]

Of course they can!  And I probably am -- so what?  You're not really
arguing with me, as you say "I do not want to put my horse at any more risk
than possible", as your reason for not riding faster.  So, you're ALSO
saying that the winner is putting their horses at more risk.  Did you hear
me put them down, and say that they are bad people because of it? 
Absolutely not.  Faster rates of speed = higher risk, in my opinion -- I
never said that the principle doesn't apply to me. 

----------
> From: Sweaney <sweaney@lightspeed.net>
> To: bass@bigsky.net; ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
> Subject: Re: Re: Fw: RC:  endurance prospect, etc.
> Date: Sunday, February 06, 2000 7:34 PM
> 
> Whitney,
> 
> "The winner is putting their horses at more risk?"
> 
> Then the very same could be said of anyone who rides!  I choose to ride
slow
> (towards the back of the pack) becasue I do not want to put my horse at
any
> more risk than possible.  If those who win are putting their horse at
risk,
> then the same could be said of you from someone is my position at the
back
> of the pack!
> 
> Karen
> Sweaney@lightspeed.net
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Whitney Bass <bass@bigsky.net>
> To: <Tivers@aol.com>; <ridecamp@endurance.net>
> Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2000 5:46 PM
> Subject: RC: Re: Fw: RC: endurance prospect, etc.
> 
> 
> Tom, I must have struck a nerve, as you've resorted to personal attacks. 
I
> guess I should have known better, having been a "lurker" for quite some
> time. . . But for your info., I think that the "clear goal" of endurance
> riding is to finish, not to win.  And yes, I think that generally, the
> winner is putting their horse at more risk.  It's only logical.  Whether
> it's in a race to the finish line (risking lameness), or asking your
horse
> to go at an incredible pace for an extended length of time, its putting
the
> horse at more "risk".  That's what I've seen, that's my opinion.  And as
> far as "conditioning an athlete that is fully capable of being safely
asked
> for a winning performance" goes, that's my point.  I have athletes that
are
> capable of a winning performance, but so do others -- and chances are
that
> they are willing to ask their horse for more than I am, if and when it
> comes down to the finish line.  I don't think that makes me a bad person,
> Tom.  I do realize that "to win" is generally the idea of "athletic
sport",
> but this sport involves an incredibly selfless animal as the other half
the
> partnership, so I think we need to be more careful not to involve our own
> egos as much.   But really, I don't know why I'm discussing this with you
> at all -- you're rude, and you really should stick with the aspects of
> endurance riding that you KNOW something about.  So, I'm done. . .
> 
> 
> 
> > From: Tivers@aol.com
> > To: bass@bigsky.net; ridecamp@endurance.net
> > Subject: RC:   Fw: RC:  endurance prospect, etc.
> > Date: Sunday, February 06, 2000 4:39 PM
> >
> > In a message dated 2/6/00 12:38:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> bass@bigsky.net
> > writes:
> >
> > << > My only point, Tom, was that I have a hard time with this sport of
> >  > endurance riding sometimes.  Not because I don't want to win, or
have
> the
> >  > horses to make it possible -- it's because at most rides, the
> (eventual)
> >  > winner is willing to push their horse harder than I am.  Believe me,
> I
> >  > went through a stage where winning was important to me.  Even raced
> for
> >  > miles on end at the end of a couple of fifties in order to place
first
> >  (or
> >  > even second).  And I hated the way it made me feel, and I hate the
way
> it
> >  > makes me feel when I see others do it.  So I made the decision to
> learn
> >  > from what I felt were mistakes, and change my mentality.  >>
> >
> >
> > I don't think I missed your point, but I'll deal with the one expressed
> > above. Pushing a horse beyond its capabilities is obviously stupid,
> dangerous
> > and expensive. Asking a well-prepared athlete to deliver his best is
> another
> > matter. That's the whole idea of athletic sport. And if a sport has a
> "first
> > place, second place, third place", then, clearly, the object is to win.
> If
> > the object was to lose, then you'd have a "last place, next to last
> place,
> > next to next to last place". Are you with me so far?
> >
> > When you say "the eventual winner is willing to push their horse harder
> than
> > I am", it's a statement without criteria. Define "push". Is it the same
> as
> > "ask", or does it mean that winners automatically are putting their
> animals
> > at risk? If it means the latter, what evidence is there of that? For
> example,
> > in the last ride you were in, where you finished 10th, on purpose, so
> that
> > you wouldn't have to face the guilt of winning, did the winner injure
the
> 
> > horse by winning? You can't win if you injure your horse, can you?
> >
> > Did the rider who finished 15th accuse you of pushing your horse too
hard
> to
> > finish in the top ten? Why not? Same logic applies all the way down to
> last
> > place. The last place horse, according to your scenario, has the
morally
> > superior rider. Even more morally superior is the rider who, having
left
> the
> > horse home to graze, comes to the ride soley for the purpose of selling
T
> 
> > shirts for a profit while glowering at all the rest of you for
torturing
> > horseflesh.
> >
> > By that logic, I was morally superior for riding in the Sheikh's
> passenger
> > seat rather than on a poor sweating beast of burden. Sure feel good
about
> 
> > myself about that, and I want to tell all the rest of you monsters that
> even
> > putting a halter on a horse is cruel and unusual punishment and you
> should
> > all be ashamed of yourselves. Would you believe there's a gold halo
over
> my
> > head as I write this?
> >
> > Ms Bass, you're confused. Whatever the source of your personal guilt,
> > projecting it onto others is not the solution. They tell me Jesus
already
> 
> > died for your sins. So forget them and, if you choose to participate in
a
> 
> > sport that has "first place, second place, and third place", why not
> attempt
> > to condition an athlete that is fully capable of being safely asked for
a
> 
> > winning performance?  This will keep you very busy with not enough time
> to
> > worry about others' motivations. And you won't find yourself tied in a
> > logical knot all the time.
> >
> > Or, if your own inadequacies force you to behave in a way that enables
> you to
> > automatically pass moral judgements on others without any possible
> knowledge
> > of their motivations, then you might do better as the Flying Nun. I
know
> that
> > I'm going to start calling myself the Passgenger Priest now that I
> understand
> > the horrors involved in winning endurance races. Lord knows, I have a
> bushel
> > of inadequacies to cover up. Sister Bass, let me introduce Father Ivers
> of
> > the Church of What's Happenin' Now.
> >
> > To win is to win.
> >
> > ti
> >
> >
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